Commons:Village pump/Archive/2009/10

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Removing work from Wikimedia

I have uploaded a couple of images to Wikimedia but have now decided I want to permanently remove them. How do I do this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bubblecar (talk • contribs) 17. September 2009, 22:58 Uhr (UTC)

Lol (sorry), thats the shortes Wikimedia career I ever saw ;) You can neither delete your account nor the images you contributed under irrevocable free licenses. --Martin H. (talk) 21:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, the image tagged as "missing a source" may be deleted anyway if you don't provide evidence that it is free of rights. --Eusebius (talk) 21:05, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
DoNotFeedTroll.jpg

Do what you like, but I won't be uploading any more images. Far too anti-user. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bubblecar (talk • contribs) 17. September 2009, 23:12 Uhr (UTC)

Colleagues, Bubblecar (talk · contribs) looks clearly like a troll to me, who has succeeded in starting four threads (see above). Don't feed him anymore. --Túrelio (talk) 21:34, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm an artist and luthier who has contributed a couple of images (and intended to contribute more), but experienced a good deal of trauma in trying to do so, because of the non-intuitive nature of the upload interface. And one of the images won't be accepted because of material that is apparently copyrighted elsewhere, but I can't work out how to re-submit the modified version which doesn't include this material.

You people really need to consider that many of your contributors are creative individuals who have decided to make unique and interesting images freely available to the global public, but who are not much helped in this aim by the software here. And when we're called "trolls" this really does make the Wikimedia project look half-baked and unwelcoming indeed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bubblecar (talk • contribs) 23:53, 17. Sep. 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bubblecar, I understand your concerns (and do not believe you are a troll). The problem is that the matter itself, especially licencing, is very complicated, if we would simplify this any further it would become illegal. All this fuss is about protecting the rights of artists like you are. Sorry for that.
But I do believe that you probably have some very valuable images to add. If you have trouble uploading, we are willing to assist you. Or, if you don't mind, you can send your images to other users, e.g. me, accompanied by a descriptiion and a confirmation that you release all rigths, and I will upload them for you, provided they are indeed valuable. -- H005 (talk) 22:15, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies to everyone. I was drunk and obnoxious, and deserved the troll call.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ? (talk • contribs) ? (UTC)

If you dislike the interface here, you may upload your pictures to [http:www.flickr.com Flickr] with a Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license and then ask someone (for example at Commons:Help Desk) to move them from there to here. Teofilo (talk) 11:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And there is also the problem of a bug in the upload interface this past week. Some things still do not work - very frustrating, aspecially for new users. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 12:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


ok; this exchange is a perfectly lovely text-book example of what we are doing wrong @ wmc:

here we have a photographer; (as of this writing) their lone surviving contribution to wmc demonstrates professional-level skills & interesting, highly useful subject-matter.

Rebec fiddle. A medieval and Renaissance bowed instrument, one of the precursors of the violin. This reconstruction of a rebec was made by Nikolas Zalotockyj. Photo by User:Bubblecar

this person wants/wanted to contribute; to upload & share their work @ wmc.

they uploaded some stuff & found (big surprise) that the media-wiki software is clunky-as-hell, awkward to use, & that it pretty much takes advanced-level user skills to do anything beyond extremely basic tasks like uploading & categorizing a file (& even those functions aren't particularly user-friendly).

this person perseveres, & finally comes on here (commons:village pump), asking for help.

the first couple of help comments they get are rather unhelpful (i'm sorry, but it's true)

then, the user gets called a "troll"; a hostile, & completely baseless claim. how exactly is name-calling meant to be helpful/useful on here anyway, & when!? ( ...back where i come from, we have this thing called "wiki-ettiqette").

so now, we have pretty much lost this artist for wikimedia.

great job guys, high 5's all around!!!

P

this conversation should be preserved as an example of how to collectively screw things up, & drive off a noob user with concentrated community-hostility.

i'm willing to believe that at least some of the people involved were acting in good conscience, but either way, the result is the same...

2 obvious points:

1. we need to actively apologize to this user, & try to get them back (& help them with uploading their work!).

2. we need to try & stop this kind of collective-effort-screw-up from happening!


if bubblecar is still bothering to read this thread:

i abjectly apologize on behalf of my fellow-wikimedians; sometimes this can be a hostile & uncouth tribe, but there are people on here who want to encourage new creative talent, & actually help fellow-users with their problems. i'm one of them, please feel free to contact me, anytime, if you need help/want to continue @ wmc. my main focus is on wikipedia/english, but i do work with other artists; recruiting them, helping them to upload their work, & getting it placed on wikipedia articles, as merited

i very much like your fiddle picture, & hope you will choose to upload further works.

Lx 121 (talk) 10:08, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Interwiki links for File: pages

Following this edit by User:Mattes at File:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Don Giovanni - Overtüre.ogg, I had a discussion with that user about the usefulness of Interwiki links for File: pages on my talk page. In short, I think File: pages should never have Interwiki links (the kind that appear in the left sidebar), Mattes thinks they provide information as to the file's usage on other language Wikipedias. We are not making much progress in resolving our diverging points of view; is there a better forum for discussing such matters with a broader input from other editors? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:35, 28 September 2009 (UTC) [reply]

That might work, but let's see people with more experience in that type of area think.Mitch32(Want help? See here!) 02:02, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't quite understand: what might work?
My intent in bringing this here is 1) either to be directed to an appropriate forum where this can be discussed (Commons:Image pages or Commons:Guide to layout … ?), or 2) to discuss it here. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:20, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In the past we had discussions on wisdom of adding interwiki links to images and the consensus was that it is not a good idea. Someone might upload dozen of other files related to this work and if we add similar links to all of them we will end up with many-to-one configuration of interwiki links. That is bad because it is not clear what the interwiki link from wikipedia to Commons should link to. Interwiki links should be only used at the category/gallery level. In case of this file I would add it to a one-file category and add links there. --Jarekt (talk) 04:18, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, these interwiki links are to the *file page itself* on the various language wikis. In other words, they are links to itself, though showing the view from the local wikis. Sort of like the "en" tab at the top of the page. I can't see too much of a purpose, except it may show the page with a different default language (not worth it in my opinion), and it also makes a quick way to see what usage there is on a particular wiki. At first blush they seem ridiculous, but then again we do have a link to the en-wiki in the tab bar for every image, so if there is a reason for that maybe there is a reason to link to other wikis. Dunno. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:05, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
We don’t have link to en, we have a link going to your “home” wiki, I have a link to cs, for instance. That has a tiny bit of usefulness, but having 272 interwiki links at each image…? Why? To check where is the file used, see CheckUsage. I agree that the interwiki links are a bad idea. --Mormegil (talk) 11:15, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I once added some when copying images from one wiki to another wiki. This was before using commons though.
If an image is on commons, generally there aren't any file description pages in the other wikis. So linking there would link to a nonexistent page. This can't be of much use. BTW there is a link "check usage" on commons file description pages that lists all uses of an image.
Within a description, it can be helpful to link some of the words to articles in the corresponding wikipedia, but this isn't the question here. -- User:Docu at 10:08, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
@ “If an image is on commons, generally there aren't any file description pages in the other wikis. So linking there would link to a nonexistent page. This can't be of much use.” -- Yes and no. The main reason is to see “OK this file is used there, there and there”. Yes, there is no further description. No, that isn't useless because one gets the links in a particular Wikimedia project. BTW: Where do we get a valid solution for this matter (not in a discussion but rather in a query I guess ...)? We don't need to put this topic in n discussions over and over, and furthermore on n pages. A policy or similar needs to be set up here. --Mattes (talk) 10:43, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Writing guideline/policy

It seems there is consensus that Interwiki links on File: pages are not a good idea, or even verboten. How and where is this going to be documented? I'm not very experienced in this, but I suggest to add this passage to Commons:Guide to layout#File description pages and Commons:Image pages#Interwiki links (new section):


"In-line Interwiki links –those which are preceded by a colon ( : )– for terms used in the description of a file are encouraged. On the other hand, File: pages must not have Interwiki links of the kind that appear in the left sidebar as they would link to non-existing pages.

Example – good

… a composition by [[:w:en:Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska|Tekla Bądarzewska-Baranowska]] … Green tick.svg

Example – bad

[[en:File:Georges Bizet - Rosabel Morrison - Carmen poster.png]] Red x.svg
[[fr:File:Georges Bizet - Rosabel Morrison - Carmen poster.png]]
Red x.svg


I'm open for better suggestions. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:24, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Transfering an image from Wikipedia

Just need someone to make sure that I haven't made a pig's ear of things. :) I've just transfered en:File:WikiProject Korea.PNG to File:WikiProject Korea.png. I excluded this revision because it appears to have been uploaded in error (was reverted by author and reuploaded at en:File:WikiProject Korea Military history project.PNG) as well as the most recent revision which I have uploaded here seperately at File:WikiProject Korea (new).png. Is this OK? PC78 (talk) 01:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Seems no problem as long as you correctly states the photographer, and license status, and original file name. By the way, I'm inviting you to Commons:Categories for discussion/2009/10/Category:Gyeongbok Palace (you know the reason why per en:Talk:Gyeongbokgung#Move request.--Caspian blue 01:18, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Volunteers still needed

Hi all,
Although we soon will remove the centralnotice that is up, the Wikimedia Foundation is still looking for volunteers to serve as subject area experts or to sit on task forces that will study particular areas and make recommendations to the Foundation about its strategic plan. You may apply to serve on a task force or register your name as an expert in a specific area at http://volunteer.wikimedia.org.

The Foundation's strategy project is a year-long collaborative process which is hosted on the strategy wiki, at http://strategy.wikimedia.org. Your input is welcome (and greatly desired) there. When the task forces begin to meet, they will do their work transparently and on that wiki, and any member of the community may join fully in their work. This process is specifically designed to involve as many community members as possible.

Any questions can be addressed to me either on my talk page here or on the strategy wiki or by email to philippe at wikimedia.org.

I hope you'll consider joining us!

Philippe (talk) 02:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

location dec

I try to use the {{location dec}}-thing (I don't know what a sjabloon is in english), but using the search function I only find images of other people who didn't seem to get it working either. Where shall I look for more information, and how can this be made clearer and easyer to encourage uploaders to add location information. KKoolstra (talk) 07:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In english it is called a template, so documentation is at template:Location dec. This is a working example: {{Location dec|59.858232|17.633442|}}. It was generated automatically from metadata by the Flinfo tool when I uploaded a file from Flickr. Very friendly. Regards, /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 07:40, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the bunch of faulty {{Location dec}} calls mentioned by User:KKoolstra. Two common faults were wrong type of or missing {{ }} brackets, and the inclusion of compass directions N,E, S, W etc when it just wants two numbers. --Tony Wills (talk) 09:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, consider using the Geolocator tool as suggested in Commons:Geocoding (it's just point, click, copy and paste). Now, perhaps, it just needs some more visibility (a direct link to Geolocator in the upload form wouldn't be bad, IMHO). --Ianezz (talk) 17:25, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The remainder of the July 2009 upload problems

Most of the files uploaded in July are now OK, but please tell if you can download the full size versions of:

I don't know if they are easy to recover, and if it is worth writing a bug on bugzilla only for these 9. Of course I have not checked the whole month of July, but I can hardly find more.

Teofilo (talk) 16:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is also

available for full size download, but no thumbnails. Teofilo (talk) 16:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In-article attribution requirement

Please forgive me if this has been addressed before.
When I was preparing to place File:Jens Stoltenberg 2007 04 18.jpg on the English Wikipedia's main page, I noticed that it was tagged with Template:Harry, which includes (in part) the following text:

Attribution: All usage must display the phrase "Photo: Harry Wad" in the immediate vicinity of the image. The word photo may be translated. This requirement also applies to any articles in Wikimedia projects using this image.

Is such a requirement enforceable? The English Wikipedia's article doesn't appear to comply, and I think that it would be preferable to use one of the other available images of Jens Stoltenberg (as I did on the English Wikipedia's main page) than to add "Photo: Harry Wad" to the article. —David Levy 11:49, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There have been discussions about that in general, though - if I remember right - most photo contributors, who are interested in this topic at all and who prefer a "near-the-photo-credit" wouldn't demand that for Wikimedia projects, because here the full credit is only 1 click away. As to my knowledge, only :no-Wikipedia has enabled crediting in the image caption (for an example, see here). So, if we take this photographers demand seriously, then File:Jens Stoltenberg 2007 04 18.jpg is used "wrongly" on 30 Wikimedia projects. --Túrelio (talk) 12:19, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also see no:Hovedside, where the image currently appears in non-compliance with this condition. —David Levy 14:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's certainly enforceable, although it is debatable whether it (a) conflicts with the CC-BY license, or (b) remains compatible with Commons. Stifle (talk) 13:30, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. A copyright holder is entitled to place any number of arbitrary restrictions on his/her works' use, but I'm not accustomed to seeing such a condition attached to an image available under a free (by our standards) license. —David Levy 13:38, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I took the opportunity to add "Photo: Harry Wad" to the English Wikipedia uses, and used {{byline|Photo: Harry Wad|2007}} for two of the captions. -84user (talk)
Hmm, though surely well-meant, that may create a precedent. IMHO it would be more appropriate to open a local discussion (i.e. on :en) about that. --Túrelio (talk) 14:38, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For the time being, I've replaced the English Wikipedia's uses with File:Jens Stoltenberg.jpg, which has no such requirement. —David Levy 17:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As In-article attribution isn't yet accepted on :de, I've put notes on the talkpages of the two articles using the Stoltenberg photo. --Túrelio (talk) 15:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's like fair use, it's up to the local projects to decide whether they accept it or not. Diti the penguin 16:25, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My take on this is: this demand appears to be a common confusion which I think comes from reading copyright notices on websites. These are written up by some arty-farty wordsmith, who has simply copied it from another website, rather than added by a lawyer (to get a lawyer, to write anything at all, costs lots more money and the result is usually totally incomprehensible). Legally the copyright owner can demand anything he wants; that is the whole purpose of Copyright – it allows the rightful owner control over publication. From a practical point of view, this particular stipulation is unwise, and perhaps therefore Harry might consider rewording it. And again on Template:Harry2 & Template:Harry3.
The CC licence only says:
* If the work itself contains any copyright notices placed there by the copyright holder, you must leave those notices in tact, or reproduce them in a way that is reasonable to the medium in which you are re-publishing the work. How do I properly attribute a Creative Commons licensed work? added emphasis mine.
The reason to alter it, is that: to demand how and where ones credit goes, is to interfere with the “ would be” publisher’s typography or page layout. Something that a publisher would not tolerate on principle. Otherwise, famous or important photographers would start demanding all sorts of unreasonable attribution prominence. Some images ( in say a book) might have all the credits placed in one place at (say) the start of the book or perhaps in an appendix at the back. Many websites now have click through credits (CNN springs to mind). Copyright owners need to be flexible for these reasons. Shall we post him a note on his WP talk page? He probable hasn't thought it through. --P.g.champion (talk) 16:31, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The license is clear: "Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work)." But I remove the specified requirement/reminder for Wikipedia in the template. --Harry Wad (talk) 19:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, I hope that people will use byline if possible on Wikipedia to. On No.wp we use byline if the photographer's name is known, even if he does not require it. Such is considered good manners :-)--Harry Wad (talk) 19:29, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, this restriction conflicts with the license text of CC-BY-2.5. Also, it's too strict for Commons. Therefore all images with this extra restriction should be removed. As a sidenote, I do not think that Wikipedia should be forced to include an attribution in the main article text. Should we add an attribution to each paragraph, or even each sentence as well? Or maybe display the list of authors on a sidebar? The name of the photographer is of no interest for the average reader and should not deface articles. --Sebari (talk) 19:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia hosts texts written by a large proportion of persons. It is logical that we must keep an history for this purpose. On the contrary, photographs are almost exclusively made by only one person; they also have generally not the same license as the text, something that should be clear for the reader, who is also likely to be a reuser. And no, it is not too strict for Commons, an image credit is an attribution, not an additional part of a license, and has nothing to do with freedom, but copyright. Should I mention there is still a copyright on any free file (except works that are released under Public Domain)? My opinion is that reusers (and it includes Wikipedia) should themselves follow the CC license terms, that say “you must leave those notices in tact, or reproduce them in a way that is reasonable to the medium in which you are re-publishing the work”: you cannot, for obvious reasons, properly include a link to the license on a printed support, so you have to adapt it. Oh well, you sure can remove the files that require such attributions, but people will post them on other websites anyway. Why deleting the good work? Diti the penguin 20:06, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please see my response below. Setting aside the legal and philosophical issues, hosting these images is far too burdensome (given the added work and confusion involved) to be considered a net gain to the Wikimedia Foundation and those who benefit from the content that it distributes. —David Levy 20:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Specifying where to put the attribution is an additional restriction that is not covered CC-BY-2.5. Therefore the images in question are not covered by CC and are not eligible for Commons. David explains some of the practical problems with this additional restriction well. Also, Wikipedia articles are collaborate works, usually by many contributors. These include writers, photographers, authors of diagrams, reviewers, and editors. Usually photos are used as part of the whole (like texts), and there is no reason to single out their contributors in an article. --Sebari (talk) 20:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the condition is too burdensome for Commons or any other Wikimedia project. Even if the practice of including in-article attributions were universally regarded as acceptable, editors and content republishers are entirely unaccustomed to it, so most won't even think to check whether the requirement exists.
Given that the vast majority of free images lack such a restriction, it's far more practical to simply prohibit it (by requesting its removal and deleting the images whose owners decline) than to demand that editors check every image to ensure that its license terms have been met (a chore likely to fall to the small percentage of users aware of the issue).
I also agree that the actual practice (whether mandatory or optional) is inconsistent with our projects' collaborative philosophy (and therefore highly undesirable). —David Levy 20:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Harry,
The problem may lay with understanding ‘who’ the manner belongs to. YOU own the manner of the form that the credit takes, the PUBLISHER owns the manner of how and where he displays it. This reads like the rantings of the chef on Muppet's to me but maybe it makes more sense to you. Navngivelse-DelPåSammeVilkår 3.0 Norge. Then please read my last post again.--P.g.champion (talk) 20:02, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I end my participation in this discussion, if any, like to delete my photos or threaten to, please be my gest. But make sure it is in line with the guidelines on Commons. I do not like bickering, send an email if there is anything you want me --Harry Wad (talk) 20:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am more concerned by the 'offensive words' provision. A license is basically a document saying "I own the copyright in this work, but I promise that I will not bring an action for copyright infringement if you to use the work according to these rules". In this case, if our use of this contributor's image was accompanied by "words that can be considered offensive", then it would be an infringement. However, "can be considered offensive" is a very broad phrase, as anything could conceivably be considered offensive to somebody, under the right conditions. The copyright owner could point to any word and correctly say that it could be considered offensive by someone, under some circumstance. In short, the license is no license at all, and the promise is illusory. BD2412 T 16:54, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • This requirement is quite understandable, as we see that the Wikimedia projects are increasing their pressure to deny authors their right to be recognized for their works in a normal way, including the You agree to be credited, at minimum, through a hyperlink or URL when your contributions are reused in any form on edit pages, and the extremely harmful pdf book tool implemented on many Wikipedia projects. Teofilo (talk) 11:37, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I missed the "could be considered offensive" bit, BD2412, and would agree that this voids the license so far as Commons is concerned and all images with {{Harry}} must be deleted. Stifle (talk) 08:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Collect remaining current problems?

It's come to my attention that Commons has had some more problems than we saw on the other wikis... I want to make sure we get that cleaned up!

Andrew has just deployed some more fixes which should eliminate the 'file already exists on Commons' bug. Can folks go through the lists above and collect just the problems that are still current down here so we can make sure we finish them up?

  • Yes check.svg ResolvedCommonist fixed in r56793 trunk/r56794 branch
    Uploads via Commonist -- fixed or do we still have problems?
    • (Who's the best person to contact about debugging or developing fixes for Commonist?)
  • Missing description page immediately after edit -- is this still happening?
  • Anything else?

--brion (talk) 21:57, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Tonight http://toolserver.org/~magnus/flickr2commons.php still did not work for me. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 22:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hey brion, on Friday or Saturday I was going through and deleting images that were missing sources, license, and/or permission, and I came across an issue several times where the software said there was no image uploaded for that filename, but the upload logs showed that an image was indeed uploaded, and I could see it in the deleted revisions (once I deleted it, of course). That happened on several files that I was dealing with on that day. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore, but I just wanted to let you know. Killiondude (talk) 00:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Magnus's CommonsHelper still doesn't work, too. --BokicaK (talk) 04:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reported working after the fix for Commonist went in. --brion (talk) 00:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if this is a bug with ogv or something else, but I can't upload File:Lilik - Il copyright sulla cultura - video Noè.ogv (19.1 MB). I tried removing the Unicode character but nothing: when the upload seems completed I only get a http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Upload&action=submit blank page. I'm using Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.3) Gecko/20090910 Ubuntu/9.04 (jaunty) Shiretoko/3.5.3.

{{Information
|Description={{it|1=''Il copyright sulla cultura'', documentario per spiegare il diritto d'autore e la sua evoluzione al pubblico medio. Con aggiunta di immagini libere.}}
|Source=[http://leonardo.lilik.it/wordpress/2009/01/19/il-copydoc-diventa-video/]  [http://www.worldofcom.altervista.org/copydoc.html] [http://www.worldofcom.altervista.org/Copydoc.wmv]
|Author=Lilik, Franco Noè
|Date=2009-01-19
|Permission={{cc-by-sa-2.5-it}}
|other_versions=[[:File:Lilik - Il_copyright_sulla_cultura.ogg]]
}}

[[Category:Documentaries]]
[[Category:Copyright law]]

--Nemo 11:37, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks a lot, brion. Sadly, the version update did not fix the Commonist problem. Commonist is still non-functional (for me at least), still with the dreaded error "UnexpectedAnswerException unexpected response data (UiSimpleActionBase) status HTTP/1.0 200 OK". I don't know who to contact but the e-mail address given here. --AndreasPraefcke (talk) 13:04, 22 September 2009 (UTC) PS: By the way, Commonist is a useful tools, but it's far from perfect. I think some better tool for mass uploading to the Commons would be great to have , or ar least something like Flickr's multi-file upload. Actually, I think it is a crucial problem for the further development of the Commons that all methods of uploading are as tiresome and as they are.[reply]

When I try to click the "Open upload form" link from the Flinfo tool, I get the following error:

Request: GET http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Upload&uploadformstyle=basic&wpDestFile=...

Error: ERR_ACCESS_DENIED, errno [No Error] at Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:39:25 GMT

Kaldari (talk) 15:42, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To fix Commonist FileUploadAction.java (in commonist-0.3.41/lib/mwapi-src/src/net/psammead/mwapi/ui/action) needs to be fixed to include wpEditToken like I did here for pywikipedia. Multichill (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since the edit token isn't actually needed to enforce CSRF protection on web file uploads, I've relaxed the check unless a token is actually passed or we're doing a non-file upload. (eg upload via URL). I can confirm that this fixes Commonist; probably it fixes a lot of the other broken upload tools as well. --brion (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rotatebot went down too (Category:Images requiring rotation starts filling up). I left a note for Luxo. -- User:Docu at 17:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Flickr2Commons is still broken for me. Ultra7 (talk) 20:50, 22 September 2009 (UTC) And Geograph2Commons wasn't working yesterday. Ultra7 (talk) 20:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

bugzilla:20736 is a remaining problem with MW's/Commons' integration with the "Firefogg" extension (or so I hypothesise, can test more thoroughly tomorrow). Jarry1250 (talk) 21:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm on IE. Ultra7 (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pointing Michael Dale at that one, as he's responsible for the firefogg integration code. --brion (talk) 22:21, 22 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And http://toolserver.org/~luxo/derivativeFX/deri1.php does not work either. These problems have been going on for a week now. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 08:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • I still have the problem described above. --Nemo 12:56, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Flickr2Commons still doesn't work. It's a shame because we just missed out on a shed load of images of the Sttaffordhire hoard due to a license change. Had it been working at the time I would have uploaded 20 at least. Now we only have 2. Ultra7 (talk) 14:12, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


  • File upload service/Script, which several uploading bots are based on (mine included), doesn't seem to work anymore. This is preventing me from uploading about 3,000 images for Wikipedia Loves Art as well as about 150 images from the US State Department. Any help fixing the script would be appreciated. Thanks. Kaldari (talk) 23:04, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed by setting wpDestFile to the UTF-8 encoded filename. Kaldari (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • One file moved today doesn't seem to have a working redirect in one Wikipedia
(en:File:Swiss_National_Council_Session_Spectators.jpg redirects, but fr:File:Swiss_National_Council_Session_Spectators.jpg doesn't).
For another file moved today both work: en:File:Fotothek_df_ps_0003830_x.jpg and fr:File:Fotothek_df_ps_0003830_x.jpg. An earlier one I checked was ok too.
We found this one when checking the first file that wasn't replaced by CommonsDelinker everywhere. -- User:
  • ✓ Done disappeared or was solved in the meantime -- User:Docu at 07:30, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 22

French copyrights and images of modern buildings

A user told me that Category:Tour_Montparnasse and Category:La Défense have images of modern French buildings. In France, freedom of panorama does not exist (see Commons:Freedom_of_panorama#France. Also from discussions on the French and English Wikipedias, I learned that images of recently built French buildings get a copyright from the architect who designed the building. Does this mean the images in these pages need to be removed? WhisperToMe (talk) 22:09, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is an open DR here: Commons:Deletion requests/Images of Grande Arche. Copyright protection is even claimed for bridges, see Commons:Deletion requests/File:Millau-Viaduct-France-20070909.jpg and Commons:Deletion requests/File:Viaduc de Millau-traversée.jpg. Luckily, Van Gogh could paint before all this. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 07:02, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I have begun nominating deletion requests for some French buildings. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On French WP, there is a special category for these images : fr:Catégorie:Image d'œuvre architecturale récente en fair use. Before any deletion, uploading them in this category would be smart. Thanks a lot. --Croquant (talk) 10:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 29

Procedural question

Hi, I have a question about procedures. I try to be very diligent about following all the Commons rules for images (now that I understand them). But I have a fellow in Yorkshire who has agreed to let me use one of his images from Flickr. However, he doesn't understand the need to change the copyright on the image, which right now just carries the full copyright on it. He asked if there is a way to leave his tag on the image, but for me to still be able to use it. I told him it might be possible to use OTC and have him write a letter to Commons giving his express permission to use the image in this one instance. However, I don't know the correct procedure on this, or whether that is indeed permissible. Would really appreciate some guidance. Thank you! MarmadukePercy (talk) 19:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what you mean with the "OTC" acronym, but I think you should read Commons:OTRS, where you will find information on how to write permission E-mails. If you have further questions, you may ask the people at Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard. Teofilo (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The easiest thing for your friend to do, would be to use the email template at Commons:Email templates and send that to OTRS. Killiondude (talk) 20:32, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks. Sorry, I meant OTRS and had my mind elsewhere. I will go that route, which I've used before for photos not on Flickr. Thanks.MarmadukePercy (talk) 20:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Request

Anyone can insert the page Template:No license/pt-br in Template:No license/lang?}} — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Melo da Silva (talk • contribs)

✓ Done, the right place to ask is the talkpage of the template Template:No license/lang using {{Editprotected}} if the page is protected. --Martin H. (talk) 22:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File upload service/Script broken

Commons:File upload service/Script seems to no longer work since the recent API update. Since several File Upload bots are based on this script, it would be awesome if someone could figure out how to fix it. I have about ~3500 files personally that I can't upload until this is solved (from various museums and the US State Department). Kaldari (talk) 23:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's what you get from running an obsolete unsuported script. wpDestFile is not set. It should contain the new filename (UTF-8 encoded). Multichill (talk) 15:47, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. That fixed it. Kaldari (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

Volunteers still needed

Hi all,
Although we soon will remove the centralnotice that is up, the Wikimedia Foundation is still looking for volunteers to serve as subject area experts or to sit on task forces that will study particular areas and make recommendations to the Foundation about its strategic plan. You may apply to serve on a task force or register your name as an expert in a specific area at http://volunteer.wikimedia.org.

The Foundation's strategy project is a year-long collaborative process which is hosted on the strategy wiki, at http://strategy.wikimedia.org. Your input is welcome (and greatly desired) there. When the task forces begin to meet, they will do their work transparently and on that wiki, and any member of the community may join fully in their work. This process is specifically designed to involve as many community members as possible.

Any questions can be addressed to me either on my talk page here or on the strategy wiki or by email to philippe at wikimedia.org.

I hope you'll consider joining us!

Philippe (talk) 03:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Category broken

I have uploaded this image and i have found a tool with which i can create automatically categories. But i want to add a new category which is only a red link category. What is done wrong. I have tried it several times to find a correect term!--A.Hakansson (talk) 12:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently someone fixed it for you already. –Tryphon 12:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Finally an answer i was waiting for. Where can you see that somebody already has changed it? What do you think of that image? Is it in good categories? Or is it in order if i add more?
If the category was removed or changed, like here, you can see it in the "history" of the file description page, click the history tab. If the category is now blue it was created in the meantime and you can see in the history of the category page who created the category. Regarding categorization: The image was over categorized at that moment (do not edit, old revision!). Category:People's Liberation Army is a subcategory of China and Military. At the meantime this is also fixed, see the description page history. --Martin H. (talk) 13:27, 2 October 2009 (UTC) p.s.: Maybe some expert want to add a category for the vehicle, you may add the file to Category:Tanks (if it is a tank, I dont know). --Martin H. (talk) 13:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, thank you for helping and giving me this info. Now i know what the categorization means. I think it is a tank, but i do definately not know. I am not interested in military. I only liked the contrast: chinese tank and a gucci store. That is quite curious and a rare composition. In addition, the PRC of our time and its history beefs this image up, too. Equal, thank you for your support. If this image is not appreciated, i can delete it. By the way one question: How can i delete images?--A.Hakansson (talk) 13:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)--A.Hakansson (talk) 13:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reading your next to last sentence I already thought to myself: No, you can not delete, you can only request deletion following Commons:Deletion policy#Detailed guildlines. But the image is great and free and uploaded with good description and source, so no reason for deletion. Your posting here attracted some editing, please dont feel surprised by the categorization and edits others do to the image. --Martin H. (talk) 14:00, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Help!

I've reverted File:Flag of Belgium.svg to an earlier version, per the official source. I need now, however, to create File:Flag of Belgium (state).svg, with the earlier image, but I have no idea how to create SVGs. (The source code would be something like: "− <svg width="450" height="390"> <rect id="black" width="150" height="390" x="0" y="0" fill="#000"/> <rect id="yellow" width="150" height="390" x="150" y="0" fill="#ffda0c"/> <rect id="red" width="150" height="390" x="300" y="0" fill="#f31830"/> </svg>"

Or like

<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1"
  xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" width="450" height="390">
 <rect width="150" height="390" />
 <rect x="150" width="150" height="390" fill="#ffde00" />
 <rect x="300" width="150" height="390" fill="#f00" />
</svg>

If anyone can help me/create this file, that would be much appreciated. Thanks!! Oreo Priest (talk) 14:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done. You simply needed to put the above code in a text file, and upload it. –Tryphon 15:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

please help with image description

I have uploaded a image using commons helper but the automatically generated text is all wrong i tried to manually fix it but it just got worse the image is File:Binary_executable_file2.png

✓ Done fixed information template --Jarekt (talk) 18:29, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Faked or not?

I have the strong impression that these two images of the same uploader

are faked or doctored. To me, it looks as if the head/face was photoshopped into an existing image. Opinions? --Túrelio (talk) 14:47, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is obvious (bad) photo montage. --BokicaK (talk) 15:05, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

apparently deleted already (MartinGugino (talk) 12:36, 3 October 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Template Looping in the Template:Info/Main series of templates

I'm not sure how long this has been around or how widespread it is but I have noticed some template looping. To see it, visit either of the following pages (there may be more, I just checked the Nimitz after spotting it at the Yamato):

and look to the bottom of the information area.. These both use specific info templates, respectively

The looping seems to come from the "aux" part of the templates. {{Info/Main}} is a very complex template. It displays a lot of information, and apparently automatically generates crosslinks and the like to multiple wikis including various languages and the like, but I think the actual work is done in other templates, not sure. It's used to make the ship specfic info templates I show. As you can see, there is no looping AT the ship specific Info page, it works OK, but if you look at usages, you see the template looping detected note. Near as I can tell there is a redirect from ../aux to the main on each of the ship specific aux pages but deleting the redirect didn't fix it, nor did leaving the page there but getting rid of the redirect. If someone can take a look that would be great. This may be endemic? not sure. ++Lar: t/c 17:10, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First time I heard of this pseudo-namespace "Info:". Is it still being used? The information could be added to Wikipedia and category descriptions instead. -- User:Docu at 19:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There's a whole bunch of them (see Special:PrefixIndex/Info:). As far as I can tell the /aux subpages are all redirects to the main page so any calls of the aux pages in {{Info/Main}} are pointless. Given the fact there has been no activity on these pages and their creator isn't active.. perhaps we should just deprecate as they are unmaintained, and replace the Info:s with simpler templates - I don't think all that scripting is necessary.--Nilfanion (talk) 19:35, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Damn, what a mess. That might be the right choice. Multichill (talk) 20:33, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nod. However I think the idea behind them is nifty... a template that links to other wikis and to other categories as well as giving a blurb seems great. I have done similar things for some photos I've taken or found, for example see Template:Christopher Columbus (whaleback), for example File:Christopher Columbus whaleback Stereoview stern view.jpg and the images that embed it, or images in the category Category:Croton_Dam_(Michigan) such as File:Croton_Dam_Muskegon_River_Dscn1100_cropped.jpg... so if there was a way to fix this Info: thing, and maybe make it less complex and easier to use, without getting rid of it entirely?? that might be goodness... because it does seem nifty. ++Lar: t/c 03:12, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think that Info: should be a real namespace. I mean, just think what people do when they press Special:RandomPage and they see such a Info: namespace. It's just useless for the readers. Also, since the pages are counted as a gallery, this makes it harder for things that rely on namespace things, like the AbuseFilter. --The Evil IP address (talk) 13:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think the stuff in the Info: pages is just a template - its designed to be transcluded into galleries/categories - so a namespace isn't really necessary. What Lar has done with his example is right I think.--Nilfanion (talk) 13:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I copied the Nimitz Info page into my userspace (I'm going to work with it to simplify/update).--Nilfanion (talk) 13:17, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Nilf. Please consider trying to retain the template nature of this, so that new info pages can be constructed easily... (the way I did mine is too much work to create new ones, at least if you want the automatic finding of other language pages) but I think moving it into template namespace (from the pseudo namespace "Info:") probably is a good idea, per The Evil IP. ++Lar: t/c 16:23, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Made a much simplified (no subtemplates!) at User:Nilfanion/Info/Redesign. I've put a test use of it here and it can be compared against the original here. I've also replicated the parameters (with one exception) so if a straight replacement was done none of the transclusions would break. Its pretty much ready to go live now. My remaining concerns are that I can't think where to put it and I think it might be better served by two templates: One for the header and one for the box. That would be trivial to do from my work - just split it in two.--Nilfanion (talk) 19:58, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Cool! Thanks for the work on that. Next steps? Try it on one of the current usages? I'll try it on Yamato to see if I ca puzzle it out. To be clear, this would be included in the current Info:Battleship_Yamato ??? Or would be used to replace all the invocations of it? ++Lar: t/c 20:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Basically just replace the call to Info/Main (that is {{{Do|Info/Main}}}|N1={{{1| }}}|N2={{{2| }}}|N3={{{3| }}}|N4={{{4| }}}|N5={{{5| }}}|Get={{{Get| }}}|What={{{What| }}} with one to User:Nilfanion/Info/Redesign (which we should move to template-space). The file link will need fixing, and it will moan about the lack of an English description... Basically I designed a straight a replacement for {{Info/Main}} - which is a template to assist in creation of other templates. Therefore just modify the various info pages :)--Nilfanion (talk) 21:08, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I hoped! I will give the one for Yamato a whirl... why don't you move your page to template space now? It should be good to go I think? Thanks again. ++Lar: t/c 21:18, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Moved it to: Template:Info/New. I hate that location (Template:Info and Template:Information are very different things!), but it will do until we can think of a new home for all the Info: space stuff.--Nilfanion (talk) 21:33, 27 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I converted the Yamato usage, seems to work nicely. Thanks! Now to convert all the rest I guess. ++Lar: t/c 18:56, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No problem! Just watch out for the things I did alter, in particular the image coding. [3]--Nilfanion (talk) 21:14, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Check usage error

The check usage tool is returning an error from Italian Wikiquote. All images seem to be affected, I have tried a number of random images [4][5][6]. Anyone have any idea where this should be reported? SpinningSpark 06:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is a bugs and requests link at the top of every CheckUsage page. I guess that would be the place. –Tryphon 06:40, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I had seen that link, but you are required to be a signed up member before you can use it. SpinningSpark 12:15, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind - it seems to be fixed now. SpinningSpark 12:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More Deutsche Fotothek images!

Hi everyone, another batch of about 18.000 images is going up now. We really need your help to get all these images properly categorized. This process is described here. Multichill (talk) 13:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You can watch the fotothek upload here -- 217.234.187.217 15:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The batches are up. The biggest categories to sort out are about Leipzig and Dresden. Multichill (talk) 16:05, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How should we proceed?

Hi. There seems to be 2 pictures on the same name at File:Jeff Bridges.jpg but maybe the first one was copyrighted. Whatever the case is, we have to do something: either create 2 separate files or delete the first file if copyrighted. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 11:06, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, the first file is correct regarding the copyright status, see Category:Alan Light. But I sugest deletion of the file version with a proper reason to prevent later reverts or misunderstandings. --Martin H. (talk) 11:30, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Better idea: I will separate the files. Temporary deletion, restoring off all versions untill the correct identification and moving them to File:Beau Bridges at 1993 Emmys-cropped.jpg. Then restoration of the newly uploaded Jeff Bridges photo. --Martin H. (talk) 11:35, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
✓ Done, the images are now separated with all its history. --Martin H. (talk) 11:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I actually didn't realize it wasn't Jeff but Beau on one of the 2 pictures ! --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 08:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

SVG not re-rendering

I've updated a new image, but the png renderer doesn't re-render it. This has happened several times now. --Beao (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Doubt...

Hi. I have a doubt. I've just uploaded this picture from Flickr but I was wondering about the copyright problems about such a picture. The licence of the photo is fine but what about the costumes people are wearing? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 08:37, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Aren't logos supposed to be copyrighted?

That's what I wondered when I saw that we had a logo of Pixar. --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 09:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is no specific copyright protection for logos. Logos are protected by trademark restrictions. If they are "artistic", of a creative design, they are additionally protected by copyright, which also expires normally. If they are very simple, there is no copyright protection. Sv1xv (talk) 09:35, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
See COM:CB#Trademarks. Lots more examples in Category:Logos. --Teratornis (talk) 09:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Non-routine bot request

I know where to go to request moving categories and universally replacing an image (User talk:CommonsDelinker/commands, for anyone who didn't already know), but where do we go to make a less routine request? For example, I'd hope a bot could be of some help in creating a category corresponding to Rote Flora, and removing the then-redundant supercategories from the images. Or do we have to do something like that entirely by hand? - Jmabel ! talk 17:09, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Bots/Work requests would be of use.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 17:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

rsvg-view?

rsvg-view link doesn't work and I can't find it trough any search engine. --Beao (talk) 23:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the archived version. Anyway, that's just a web version of the standard man page that ships with the program: assuming you have rsvg installed on your computer, you should get the same page by typing the command man rsvg-view. Also, you can Google for man rsvg-view to find other versions of the manual page. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 20:48, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 3

Image from Flickr

Hi, i don't know all rules about transfering images from flickr to commons, but can anyone tell me if this image can be moved to commons: It is licenced under this licence. --SveroH (talk) 10:21, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No it can't. See COM:FLICKR and COM:L#Acceptable licenses. –Tryphon 10:27, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The best think to do if you want to move a picture from Flickr to Commons is using the Flickr upload bot through its web interface. If you write the link, the bot will tell you if it can be moved or not, and if it can it will be very useful and quick to upload it on Commons (apart if you want to upload a cropped version of a picture you found on Flickr, which is not possible with the bot..) --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 13:18, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ok, thanks --SveroH (talk) 16:31, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Another piece of advice: if you're looking for some keywords with the advance search tool, select all 3 lines in the Creative Commons section at the bottom. Then you'll be sure that everything's found with your search will be compatible with Wikimedia Commons (well, except for stuff for which people claim they're the author when they're not but that's another story!) --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 16:53, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've uploaded this image from flickr. i searched under advance search. so, can you tell me if image is ok, thank you. --SveroH (talk) 20:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Regretably not. The image is freely licensed on Flickr but the Flickr licensor is not the copyright holder. Only the copyright holder can provide a free licensing, see COM:FLICKR#Questionable_Flickr_image. Also the Flickr uploader Kalumba2009 is listed at Commons:Questionable Flickr images. --Martin H. (talk) 20:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ok, i'll be more carefull next time --SveroH (talk) 20:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Italian lake prefix

We have some categories which have instead of "Lake XX", "Lago di" is this the correct naming style?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why is your username not in English? -- User:Docu at 21:43, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say that's the proper naming style, since "Lago di" is not a prefix, but part of the proper noun of the lake. What follows "Lago di" is often the name of a village/locality/municipality, so the proper noun of the lake includes "Lago di" (roughly: "Lake of") to differentiate. Rarely, an italian lake has a proper noun which does not include "Lago di" (lake Trasimeno, for example, but that's the only one that comes to mind), and in that case a category named "Lake Trasimeno" would make sense because "Lago" (note: without "di", which translates to "of") is really just a prefix in that case. On the opposite, a category named "Lake Garda" would make little sense, because "Garda" alone is the proper noun of the municipality/village of Garda. The same thing happens also for italian castles, towers, palaces and villas (where "Castello/Castel", "Torre", "Palazzo" and "Villa" is part of the proper noun (and what follows is often the name of a locality or family). -- IANEZZ  (talk) 22:08, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A look via catscan on en.wikipedia w:en:Category:Lakes of Italy by region shows a large majority for Lago, some Lakes and in South Tyrol even some Seen (der See - pl. die Seen; German term for lake). --Martin H. (talk) 22:44, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well the thing is that most of these are stubs and may not follow the naming conventions.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 23:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Ianezz. Constructions like Category:Lake Maggiore and Category:Lake Como are abominations. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 08:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Pieter Kuiper. MartinD (talk) 15:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Categories vs. pages?

Can somebody point me to info about when it's best to make a page with a gallery (e.g., Ward Cunningham), vs. when it's best to just put things in a category? Thanks! -Peteforsyth (talk) 23:47, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh the old Category vs Gallery discussion :-). There is little point having a gallery which just duplicates the category, or with very few images. A gallery can be selective, ordered and structured, whereas a category just shows you everything (usually unordered), including redundant, poor quality, and superseded versions which are not the images most sought after. So you might group photos of a bird into male, female, young, nesting, feeding etc.
You also do not need to have a one-to-one relationship between galleries and categories. ie You might have a gallery that includes a few good images from a number of related categories (eg separate sections for different sub-species) so that people don't have to search through many sub-categories (eg to find a good example of a species when the exact sub-species isn't important). See Commons:Galleries --Tony Wills (talk) 06:05, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 4

Unassessed QI candidates

The category Unassessed QI candidates contains images which were nominated for QI, but for whatever reason never got any reviews (either promote or decline) within an 8 day period. This seems like a bit of a limbo-land. Shouldn't there be some kind of process by which these can be assessed? Or is the expectation that they remain in limbo? Or is it permissable to resubmit them to the normal process? 99of9 (talk) 08:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Generally it means that the image wasn't interesting enough for anyone to assess it. But they can indeed be re-submitted, if one is ignored for a second time, then I would take it as a big hint :-) --Tony Wills (talk) 09:02, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Global warning bot.

Recently I had a discussion about posting a warning on relevant article's talk page (on other projects) of images which we are deleting here and/or informing users who might be interested in solving commons' images copyright problems.
User:Paradoctor suggested that we can use a global bot/tool which uses the output of "CheckUsage" to alert file users in other projects. for example it can post a warning on relevant article's talk page.
I think it is a good idea and pretty necessary for us.   ■ MMXXtalk  04:25, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I initially read that as "Global warming bot", and my imagination went for a wander ... :-). But sounds like a good idea, might save people a lot of trouble if they find out early that there is a problem rather than waiting until the image disappears. Apart from notifying article talk pages, which users would you notify? I suppose people who have it on their user pages, what about people who have it on their watchlist (even if possible would that invoke privacy issues?) - maybe those who have edited its description page?--Tony Wills (talk) 05:46, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! I made the same mistake, couldn't believe my eyes... -- JovanCormac 07:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Symbol support vote.svg Support Yea sure great idea. This would alert users who have the articles on their watchlist where they could participate in the discussion of the deletion. This has been one of the issues of users not participating in commons (Images get deleted without proper notice...).--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:51, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What about images used in a transcluded template. I think CheckUsage reports one use for every page where the template is transcluded, which would create a huge mess if the template is widely used.
In my opinion, it would be enough to warn the uploader on each project where the image is in use. That should take care of drop-by users, who only contribute to Commons when they need an image on their home project, and never return to check their user page. Those are the most likely to miss a DR or nsd/npd tag, while they could actually do something about it. Putting a warning on the article talk page would surely warn a lot of people, but if a permission is missing, what can they do about it?
But of course, the easiest solution would be to strongly encourage users to activate email notification (or make it the default). –Tryphon 21:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Adding template detection to CheckUsage shouldn't be too hard, methinks. Missing permissions may be obtained by asking for them. The point of a warning bot would be to inform interested parties who have not explicitly expressed their interest. I'm primarily thinking of images used in articles. In this case, uploader, linker and article editors might be three different user groups, with the latter being the one standing to profit most from such a bot, and they're the ones for which email notification is not feasible. Sure, undeletion is usually an option, but a warning might save everyone some work. And that is, after all, the idea behind using silicon slaves. ;) Paradoctor (talk) 12:24, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bad category name

Seems to me that this category is not optimally named. Can somebody rename this category, please. --A.Hakansson (talk) 17:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think it should be named instead? -mattbuck (Talk) 18:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Category:People in swimming pools? /129.215.149.98 15:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds about right. I did the move. Wknight94 talk 15:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Wknight94! I am quite shocked that an administrator as mattbuck is, did not know that category names on Commons MUST be in plural form ([7])!--A.Hakansson (talk) 15:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"People" is a plural noun, hence, Category:People in a swimming pool is plural. Category:Animals by country is analogous. Category:Animals by countries does not exist. Category:People in swimming pools applies to images showing more than one swimming pool containing people. Walter Siegmund (talk) 16:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That's not really analogous. "People in a swimming pool" sounds like a bunch of people in one swimming pool. People by country means people grouped by their country. "People in a swimming pool" would be analogous to "People in a country". It would be confusing at best. Which country? Any country? I would change that one to "People in countries". Wknight94 talk 17:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just saying that when asking for a category to be renamed, it's helpful if you say what you think it should be named instead. I personally think People in a Swimming Pool should be the name of a band. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well if anyone's looking for less than optimally named categories with people, Category:People in shower is a candidate for pluralization. Man vyi (talk) 18:09, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That one's done now too. By the way, we have COM:DL for obvious renames like these. Wknight94 talk 19:00, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Flickr again

sorry to bother you all again, but i want to upload this image from flickr to commons. it is licenced under free licence and uploader is not on list of Questionable Flickr uploaders. --SveroH (talk) 18:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • This seems to be a legitimate upload. The user seems to have many valuable images. Please do a batch upload request and Commons:Batch uploading so we could import his various images to Commons.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:31, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • You may do a batch upload request, of course, but you can also transfer only this image - it is ok. --Martin H. (talk) 21:10, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • ok, i submited batch upload request here. this is my first time to do a batch upload request, so please tell if it is ok, thank you --SveroH (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)--SveroH (talk) 13:44, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've found anoher uploader that i think it's ok. he has uploaded few whitney houston's photos. we have none whitney's photos here on commons. can i upload this few images? author is here (tm 10001) --SveroH (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ok, i should that figured out --SveroH (talk) 16:14, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Picasa - Trusted Users

I think we should update the trusted users, there is more place to look for images, for example Picasa, the license it is the same as in Flickr. And I'm sure a person who is empowered to check the Flickr is able to assess in Picasa. Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton (talk) 21:26, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 5

File:Ponte delle Catene (Fornoli).JPG

When I uploaded a new, cropped version of File:Ponte delle Catene (Fornoli).JPG, the thumbnails, in any size, show up in the aspect ratgio of the cropped version, but show a vertically compressed version of the original image rather than the cropped version. Does anyone know why and how to fix it? -- H005 Sexy Mouth transparent.png 16:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I purged it; seems okay now. –Tryphon 16:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merci beaucoup ! -- H005 Sexy Mouth transparent.png 18:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move Info:Hospital ships to category namespace?

Info:Hospital ships is currently used in

  1. Category:Hospital ships (transclusion) (← links)
  2. File:Britannic hospital.jpg (transclusion) (← links)
  3. File:Vaisseau Duguay-Trouin-École d'application des Aspirants.JPG (transclusion) (← links)
  4. File:Britannic hospital.jpg (transclusion) (← links)
  5. USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) (transclusion) (← links)
  6. USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) (transclusion) (← links)
  7. USS Mercy (AH-4) (transclusion) (← links)

I'd like to move this to the category description of Category:Hospital ships and remove it from all other uses. The other files/galleries are already in the category "hospital ships" and each description states that it's a hospital ship. -- User:Docu at 10:02, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See a few threads up, there is a proposal to change the Info: pseudonamespace files to not be there any more. I suggest you convert Info:Hospital ships to a template as I did for Yamato (and will do for others when I hvae time) per the good work Nilf did... then make the decision about whether to include it from JUST the category or from all the images. Personally I prefer the latter, but it needs conversion, not copypasta. Moving the content to the category would be something I would oppose. ++Lar: t/c 21:27, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Can you address the question if this specific text is needed anywhere else than in the category description? We all know about the template namespace being for templates. -- User:Docu at 21:35, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think you missed the point of why I mentioned the conversion. But to your question, well, most of the other uses of Info: pseudo namespace pages I've seen applied to a single thing (the Yamato, for example) rather than a whole category of things. Still, when I look at, for example File:Britannic hospital.jpg, it strikes me as useful information to have on the file's description page. (It would be even more useful if it didn't have "template loop detected"... which conversion to Nilf's version fixes) I wouldn't be likely to go to that category in search of the additional info unless I knew about it being there already. I can see the argument for not having it, but on balance I think, marginally, weakly, I'd prefer it be kept on the individual files. For uses that apply to a single thing (again, the Yamato as an example) I think the argument for keeping it on every image is far far stronger. If it were relegated to the category (Yamato has its own category) that would be a significant loss of info. ++Lar: t/c 02:35, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent) Personally I think the note on hospital ships is a valuable category description (which is why I suggested moving it into that namespace in the first place).

From a categorization point of view, e.g. USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) shouldn't be in Category:Hospital ships as Category:USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) is already in Category:United States Navy hospital ships (itself a subcategory of Category:Hospital ships.

To summarize your point of view, you would suggest making such category descriptions into templates and adding these to all images in their sub-categories? -- User:Docu at 08:18, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Weakly. (for categories that "include multiple physical things" like hospital ships) More strongly for categories that are about just one thing (like a single ship). Although I didn't use an Info: sort of thingie take a look at File:Christopher Columbus whaleback Sprague painting.jpg which is in category SS Christopher Columbus... I put the same informative template invocation in both the images and the category. Not everyone knows to go look at categories. ++Lar: t/c 17:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think I must object to your counter-proposal. It isn't consistent with the current way categorization is being done. Besides, you don't seem to be too convinced of it yourself. -- User:Docu at 11:38, 3 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not everyone knows to go look at categories. I certainly would not REQUIRE that informative templates be placed on every image, but I wouldn't waste effort removing them in order to have them solely at the category level. Again, I think my SS Chris images came out pretty nicely, the template invocation is right in the {{Information}} box. ++Lar: t/c 19:18, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You might want to start another thread if you are interested in feedback on that other Info page and its uses. -- User:Docu at 19:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Policies navbox

Hi, sorry if this is not the appropriate forum to post this, but I am hoping to solicit some discussion at Commons talk:Policies and guidelines regarding my proposed addition of a navbox to the policy and guideline pages. Cheers, DoktorMandrake 09:23, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For information, this is the template being discussed:
DoktorMandrake 13:48, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent! At last. Finding out what's allowed on Commons and what's not is still way too hard. -- JovanCormac 09:56, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe also a line related to bots? It's really hard initially to learn how to make a request for a bot to do a task. Nothing on the Community portal. - Jmabel ! talk 17:10, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why no thumb for GIF?

Why thumbnail image does not be produced for the GIF format file? --百楽兎 (talk) 05:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You probably just need to purge the cache if something has gone wrong with the thumbnail. You can add a "Purge" gadget on each image's page by turning on the option "Thumbnail Purger" under "Gadgets" in user Preferences. --Tony Wills (talk) 06:16, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Schild Hochspannung.gif
I means another problem. For example, I made a thumb of File:Fire .gif with 64px width as the right image. Now please save the right image to your PC and see what its dimension is. You will find that it is the same as the original source, not a thumb generated by server. The thumb of Other formats is not like this. For example, this thumb of PNG format: ElectricDanger.png--百楽兎 (talk) 08:45, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think the problem was that animated GIF images did not scale properly, so the server delivers all gif images at their full size and lets the browser scale it. --Tony Wills (talk) 08:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh! So the Purge thing at the top of an image file page is only purging the thumbnail from the cache? I've always wondered what that was, while not daring to test it in case it would erase that page. I know that would be highly unlikely though. Johan G (talk) 13:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So this problem will not be fixed in the future? --百楽兎 (talk) 14:11, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image File:Luna 3 wide angle.png not NASA PD?

The Image File:Luna 3 wide angle.png from the Soviet Luna 3 spacecraft is currently tagged as NASA-PD. The NASA-PD template includes the warning that "The NASA website hosts a large number of images from the Soviet/Russian space agency, and other non-American space agencies. These are not necessarily in the public domain". I am quite sure that the NASA-PD template is not valid for this image (the template says that "this file is in the public domain because it was created by NASA", but this is obviously not a NASA image), and one may rise the question if that image is in PD at all. Any comments? --Vesta (talk) 08:13, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so, since term of copyrights protection in Russia (USSR legal successor) is 70 years. There are no special exemptions in Russia's copyrights law for this kind of images. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 14:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CC Copyright-Only Dedication (PD US)

Which license template should I choose for that at Commons? http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/

--217.189.240.185 13:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This one: {{Cc-pd}}. The full list of Creative Commons license tags is in Category:CC license tags. –Tryphon 14:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 8

Consensus

I think its a pretty clear consensus the bug is placed as 21059 Huib talk 17:25, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

MOTD 10-09 is deleted!

MOTD 10-09 is now deleted. What should we do for October 9th media? Kwj2772 (msg) 12:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

9 October is the birthday of Camille Saint-Saëns, so how about File:Camille Saint-Saëns - The Carnival of the Animals.ogg? Man vyi (talk) 14:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I changed. Thank you for your suggestion! Kwj2772 (msg) 11:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Images of peta

Are all peta images generally in the public domain or must there be a certain permission of peta to publish an image under a PD-licence? Example here (without OTRS) and here (with OTRS). Michael, 12:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The OTRS email contains an email from PETA that states all their own works are "not copyrighted and may be redistributed freely", but their copyright policy does not say the same thing. In all fairness, the email was from 2007, so there's a possibility that they changed their copyright policy. I'm not sure how to handle this one. Killiondude (talk) 00:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sandhill crane poster

I would like to get my son (lives in Las Vegas) some posters of sandhill cranes. Can you help? I don't understand how to use Wikimedia Commons or any part of this website. Is this the correct place to ask this questions?

I liked the cranes with the baby walking, and others.

Contact: tilliecamp@solarus.net

THANKS!

Well, you could look through the images in Category:Grus canadensis, and if you find one you like that will print nicely at a large size, download a copy and send it to Kinkos or any other print shop. Otherwise, you could Google for "sandhill crane poster" which finds pages of links. --Teratornis (talk) 07:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How does a professional athlete/trainer get his bio put up & protected on here. I am working with an MMA trainer and would like to get his information listed. His name is already connected with many MMA/UFC names listed in the bios, but of course without a link to his own bio.

Who does the bios?

How do we get a bio up?

Can I enter the info?

How do we protect it so others cannot mess with the information (perfect example BJ Penns Bio is semi-protected)?

Do I need special programs to upload files/create the bio?

How can I make sure only I and authorized people EDIT the bio?

Help for name of new category

Hi. I wanted to create a new category within the sex categories dedicated to illustrations showing the sexual penetration of an object (but not only dildos, which may be a sub-category), as in this picture. Do you have an idea of the best way to name this new cat? --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 15:51, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In blissful ignorance of COM:Cat, I suggest "Penetrative use of sex toys". And a big "thank you" for raising this topic. It crowned an already pretty good day with a big smile. ;) Paradoctor (talk) 17:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Language policy

Hi, in an effort to move the Commons:Language policy closer to completion, I have been editing it and cleaning it up for the last few days. I have tried to make the page as neutral and consistent as possible with the relevant policy and guidleine pages that it cross references.

I would appreciate it if you could look at Commons talk:Language policy and contribute your thoughts. This is the version that exists as I am writing it and I am encouraging everyone to consider the "static" page until everything gets sorted out.

Many thanks. Evrik (talk) 17:16, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PotY 2007 about to be deleted

Picture of the Year 2007 is about to be deleted according to Commons:Deletion requests/Images of Grande Arche. The picture represents the Grande Arche de la Défense, a major 20th century building in the Paris vicinity, designed by an architect who died in 1987. As France does not recognize freedom of panorama, the picture was DR'ed a first time in January 2008 and kept on De minimis grounds. However, I decided to close this new DR with 'delete' because people who voted 'keep' were probably not aware that a French court had forbidden non-authorized postcards representing the Grande Arche "in a panorama of which it was the main feature, or at least an important feature" (TGI Paris 12th July 1990). The Grande Arche may not be the main feature in this picture, but it sure is an important one. Also, you can represent the fountain *without* the Grande Arche. You just have to face the other way.

Anyway, I'm mentioning this here, on the Village Pump, so that people from Wikipedias allowing Fair Use may move PotY 2007 locally. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 18:47, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of the Year 2007 was File:Broadway tower edit.jpg. The image in that deletion request was not even one of the finalists. It was a candidate in the POTY2007 vote just as all other featured pictures from 2007. /Ö 19:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Enable patroller permissions


File:Badge of the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom.svg

This cannot possibly be licensed under Creative Commons. It is the logo/crest/emblem/whatever of the UK's Supreme Court, as granted by the College of Arms. Delete, please, especially since there is a properly-licenced-and-used version locally on ENwiki. Thanks. 84.51.149.80 21:07, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's copyrighted: w:File:Supreme_court_crest_(official).svg and I have requested deletion.
Why can't it be licensed under Creative Commons? Is it not an original work of art created per the blason? The College of Arms grants the blason, but each interpretation of that blason is, is it not, an original expression of that idea and therefore attracts copyright in its own right? Of course, UK law may restrict the usage of heraldry by bodies other than that authorised to bear arms - but that is a non-copyright question, surely? Man vyi (talk) 21:35, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not a fan of copyright, but crown copyright works that way. And no, it does not qualify as original expression. --Beao (talk) 21:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Per Man vyi, of course the rendering can be considered creative work and thus you can put under a license - you may have a lock at File:UK Royal Coat of Arms.svg. The question is not the valid CC license. The question is if the design of the badge is in the public domain in the UK with other {{Insignia}} restrictions. --Martin H. (talk) 21:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whoops. --Beao (talk) 21:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is ‘still’ being discussed on the deletion requests page. Therefore, so this same conversation about blazons vis copyright does not get repeated every time a European crest of this type gets created for WC, could a polyglot add something like this guidance to the en: WP and WC. Les blasons et le droit d'auteur The coats and copyright Perhaps it ought to get included in the copyright guidance pages as well. Further, There appears no way to copyright a description of selection of elements and their spacial relationship to each other in the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 as these are abstract ideas. Same apply with the futility of trying to patent abstract ideas. Otherwise someone would have copyrighted any 2D work of art that contains a figure of a woman with a child etc., etc. So it is clearly up to the artist to freely express his interpretation of the ‘abstract idea’ incorporated into each blazon.--P.g.champion (talk) 08:57, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is Commons:Coats of Arms -- could be written better, but is basically correct. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:33, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

may another user change my picture-pd-license?

Hi, i would like to hear your opinion. I am author of the simple drawing (File:Lichtabsorbtion_eines_buchenblattes.svg). Checking the other day, I recognized, that somebody made a new drawing from it (File:Engelmannscher_Bakterienversuch.svg), with some changes to the piture. He then published the piture under a cc-license. Is this possible? I really would like to maintain the pd license - even though i don't see the uniqui character of the changes, so that a copyright license would be justified!!! I wrote to the user (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matthias_M.#Image:Lichtabsorbtion_eines_buchenblattes.svg), but we didn't find a common compromise. What is your opinion? Lanzi (talk) 11:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PD is not actually a license. After you release something into Public Domain anyboby can use your work for any purpose and release any derivative work under any license (the new copyright will only cover new original elements). Ruslik (talk) 11:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to ensure that derivative work is also available under a free license, I recommend the {{Cc-by-sa-3.0-de}} license, which also covers any issues related to your moral rights. Sv1xv (talk) 12:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The license on the new work only covers the portions authored by the other user -- your image is still PD. Another user cannot claim copyright over your work, only on the additions they make. However, being public domain, you also cannot control the license that another user chooses for *their* works, even if it partly incorporates yours. Moral rights still apply though in most countries, so attribution of your portion should still be maintained. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Correct english

Hey guys. I need your help for the correct of english. My question is about the M109 howitzer. Currently we have two categories: M109 howitzers in Israelitic service which is nominated for deletion and M109 howitzers in Israeli service. Which one has the correct gramma?
thanks for your help --D-Kuru (talk) 13:05, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Israeli. "Israelitic" I think more relates to the word "Israelite", not necessarily the modern country of Israel, which seems to be what is desired for those categories. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, "Israelite" and "Israelitic" refer to the Biblical Israel. -Nard the Bard 13:23, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To avoid this type of problems, Commons naming would prefer something like "M109 howitzers used in Israel" or ""M109 howitzers in service in Israel". Moreover, that form is extendable, so one could imagine "M109 howitzers used in Nazareth" and "M109 howitzers used in Nazareth, Belgium" (Category:Nazareth (Belgium)). --Foroa (talk) 13:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That would be a slightly different category... they aren't always used in the country where the army comes from (historical battle photos, joint exercises with another country's army somewhere, etc.). Maybe "M109 howitzers of Israel". Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I belive it's Israeli. Evrik (talk) 17:41, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK. M109 howitzers in Israeli service will be kept. Thanks for your help
--D-Kuru (talk) 06:54, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Patrol

Both the Patroller and Autopatrolled userrights have been activated. Users interested in having such userrights should apply at Commons:Requests for rights‎. Cheers, Tiptoety talk 20:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

License for File:IC10 BVHa.jpg valid?

File:IC10 BVHa.jpg

This image is from the Local Group Survey of the Lowell observatory (http://www.lowell.edu/users/massey/lgsurvey/IC10_BVHa.jpg). There is no indication on the web pages of Lowell Observatory that the images are in the public domain. I doubt that the {{PD-USGov}}-tag applies here, as the Lowell Observatory is a private research institute, no government institution. --Vesta (talk) 12:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would tend to agree. It was produced under an NSF grant, but that usually does not change any copyright ownership. It may have been a mistaken assumption by the original uploader. I would nominate it for deletion. Carl Lindberg (talk) 17:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GPS information template

Do we have a GPS information template? For example for File:Tamiasciurus_douglasii_6021.JPG the information below the information template gives the elevation, the GPS device and location name. This is searchable and produces some problems. Searching for Garmin GPSmap 60CSx gives the images located by the device but not an image of the device. Any solution in mind?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 14:59, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What should we do with File redirects?

Should file redirect pages be deleted after commons delinker replacement of all links or should they be kept? Wouldn't a bot that places all file redirect pages in a maintenance category for review by admins be useful? --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 14:49, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I find them quite anoying and redundant, for example the image in the taxobox here[10] has been moved from Carnotuarus 2.jpg to Epachthosaurus.jpg, but the first file name (which is now a redirect) is still used in the article, but when you click on the image (or with checkusage), you can only see on what pages it is used with the filename Epachthosaurus.jpg, not Carnotuarus 2.jpg, therefore you cannot find everywhere the image is used regardless of name. Delete them all, I say, one of the worst ideas Ive seen on Commons, after one file galleries. FunkMonk (talk) 15:17, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You can click What links here on Epachthosaurus.jpg, find the redirect then click check usage. You'll find where it is used . I think every file redirect should be in a maintance category for admins to check and delete.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 15:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as soon as nothing points towards them anymore. --Eusebius (talk) 15:29, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. I think we should keep almost all file redirects. Even if all usages have been replaced on Wikimedia projects, the redirect is still useful in two cases: 1. When viewing an old version of an article, with the old name; 2. Outside of Wikimedia, where we have no control on which file name is used. The only case where it's OK to delete a redirect is when an image was moved very shortly after upload, so that there is no way the old name was ever used. Pruneautalk 15:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Pruneau. Redirects should stay if the file was in use somewhere. I think we need a bot placing something like Template:File redirect on all newly created file redirects, files using this template should be checked by a bot for usage in other projects and sorted with a template parameter to Category:File redirects not in use and Category:File redirects in use. We can replace the used redirects with CommonsDelinker A text output with delinker commands for the used redirects would be nice. CommonsDelinker should place his Template:Universally replaced to file redirects where no replacement is possible so we must do this by hand, e.g. galleries on Wikipedias or Images in some Infoboxes are not so easy to replace. --Martin H. (talk) 16:25, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Addition: I just noted, that some wikis are unable to handle file redirects, so the fr.wikipeda with the redirect File:Citation a l'ordre de la division Maurice Dutilleul 73 RI 51 Div.JPG used in this article - I have no problem to include the same text on de.wikipedia but on fr.wikipedia the file is not shown up. --Martin H. (talk) 16:36, 6 October 2009 (UTC) Only temporary. --Martin H. (talk) 23:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So the only purpose of the redirects is to have them show up in older revisions? Isn't that too little and too late? FunkMonk (talk) 17:15, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Older revisions, external users, bookmarked pages, user upload logs (the page is moved, but not the upload log). Maybe more? --Martin H. (talk) 18:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Commons isn't just for Wikipedia. Breaking preexisting links from the outside web or from offline or from emails or from books or from ANYTHING ELSE in the world is being a TERRIBLE web citizen and it goes against everything Wikimedia stands for.

DO NOT delete redirects EVER unless there is an OVERWHELMING reason to do so -- 99.99999% of the time that's either because you're putting something else actually there at that name or it's a junk name from a rename vandal. Virtually EVERY other time you should leave the redirect where it is. --brion (talk) 22:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment I think the answer depends on why the file was renamed. Currently, files are said to be renamed for one of the following reasons:

  • 1. Uploader requested or agreed
  • 2. change completely meaningless names into suitable names, according to what the image displays (e.g. File:22785u9ob807b3c4f4.jpg or File:DSC_1342.jpg to File:Pretoria_Venningpark_-_seen_from_tower_October_2009.jpg
  • 3. correct misleading names into accurate ones (e.g. File:Flickr_Main_Page_Screenshot_7_October_2009.JPG => File:Wikimedia_Commons_Main_Page_Screenshot_7_October_2009.jpg )
  • 4. change meaningless bio-names into binominal scientific names (File:Unknown_insect_02.jpg => File:Echinops_setifer_Japan.jpg )
  • 5. correct obvious errors in file names (e.g. wrong proper nouns or false historical dates, e.g. (File:Van_Gogh_portrait_1787.jpg => File:Van_Gogh_portrait_1887.jpg )
  • 6. harmonize file names of a set of images (so that only one part of all names differs), to ease their usage in templates (e.g. diagram symbols, scans of pages of a book, maps)
  • 7. Mere cosmetics

If a name is sufficiently misleading or undefined for the file to be considered needing rename, there first name shouldn't redirect to the new one either.

For some of the other reasons, if it's important to keep links to the existing file name, the file shouldn't be moved in the first place. -- User:Docu at 10:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really get the point. Files have been renamed for ages by uploading them under a different name. Never have ever has anybody after deleting the old file put a redirect in that place. Why now? --Cwbm (commons) (talk) 11:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I believe there used to be technical problems; they caused issues in various places with the Wikimedia software so we had to delete them. But given brion's remarks above, those seem to have been fixed -- and so we should now keep them wherever reasonable. And we should probably add them when deleting duplicates as well. Some of User:Docu's examples above probably should not be kept (misleading names, especially if the old name could be used by another image more correct for that name), but even the nonsense names should probably redirect to show the history (and prevent future identical nonsense names from being uploaded). Redirects will let us do the harmonizing of a set of images without the massive fallout that we have always had from that. There aren't many reasons *not* to use them. w:WP:REDIR says However, in general, unless there is a good reason (such as vandalism or userfying recently created malplaced items) to suppress the redirect, it is best to leave it behind, as a useful entry in the history. This leaves a trail to help readers find the old article, in case a new article is created at its previous location. If image redirects are now just as functional here, we should probably have a very similar policy. Carl Lindberg (talk) 13:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Symbol keep vote.svg Keep all redirects. Removing them breaks all old references to the work (internal and external). This is *especially* true for Commons, as images are linked to in wikis other than just the Wikimedia Foundation ones, so there is no way to determine if all links are "fixed". As long as they don't show up in categories etc. I can't think of a good reason to delete them at all. Obviously we should fix all internal (and wiki project) references, but that can be done by bots. Also, Wikinews may have a "no modification" policy on old news stories so deleting redirects may break their old news articles. Redirects are never deleted on Wikipedia; why here? They were only a problem due to technical issues, which I assume are now being sorted out. I could see *maybe* deleting redirects when fixing bad names of *very* recent uploads, but not much else. Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects still have several issues.

  • They break CommonsDelinker. I have mentioned this before and have mentioned it several times. Brion said to fix CommonsDelinker, but AFAICS nothing has been done.
  • They provide attack space for vandals. Why vandalize a fully protected image when an unprotected redirect points to the image and is widely used? Uploading an image over the redirect makes that images show up instead of the image being redirected to. We should have a way to protect redirects together with the image or have an "editredirect" right that we can restrict.
  • They don't fix hotlinks. Usually when linking a file, the link will look like (e.g. for today's POTD) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Sydney_Opera_House_-_Dec_2008.jpg . This is the link web developers will use to hotlink the image. Once we move the image, that link is dead, no matter whether we have a redirect or not. I just tried this over at test.wiki, check http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crane operator at TVA.jpg and http://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crane operator at TVA moved.jpg. The old link, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/test/5/5b/Crane_operator_at_TVA.jpg , now gives a 404 error.
  • I recommend people read the discussion on bugzilla:15842, where those issues have already been explained and discussed.#

Best regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 16:46, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • CommonsDelinker sounds like it is an issue. The (far) preferable way would be to fix that tool, obviously. But if we have bots fix internal redirects, which seems to happen right now, that is mitigated.
  • If we have a bot fix the internal redirects, there shouldn't be any attack space for vandals either. But I could see protecting redirects along with the image they point to, sure, especially for uploading new images with that name.
  • It would be nice if hotlinks were redirected, yes, something which may be possible if we have the redirects. Deleting the redirects doesn't help this situation anyways, so it's no worse. However, hotlinks are not the only external usages -- there are specific instructions on how to set up any MediaWiki installation to use Commons as an image base, and those references should work through the redirect, I believe (and there is no way that CheckUsage etc. will ever find them).
Overall, I just think that the problems caused by deleting (long-established) old filenames outweigh the downsides in using them. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment: When protected pages are moved, both the page and the redirect will remain protected. See Commons:Deletion requests/box and Template:DRbox. So this shouldn't be an issue. --The Evil IP address (talk) 10:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Proposal How about any totally unusefull and misleading name redirecets deletions? Redirects like DC120914 should be deleted after their wiki wide links have been replaced...--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"...after their wiki wide links have been replaced..." - do you follow the discussionb from the beginning? -jkb- (talk) 13:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 7

Image displays incorrectly

Hi - I have uploaded a file File:LamokaProjPoint.jpg. It replaces the original version that I uploaded. When you go to the image page, it displays correctly at the top (three points) but below it does not (two points). Furthermore, it does not display correctly at the Wikipedia page [11]. Any ideas? PAR (talk) 21:54, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes when uploading new files, the cached thumbnails for the image are not deleted and newly created. There is a link on top of the file pages, it says "purge". When you click that, the thumbnail cache is emptied for the image. Once you refresh the pages with the image on it in your browser, you should see the correct version. Best regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 22:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 10

Mayflower search

The Mayflower search is broken at the moment. I would try to fix it, but I cannot find a copy of the source code anywhere. I am not a commons regular, but I thought you might want to look into this and fix it. User:TangoTango, the maintainer, seems not to be around recently. CBM (talk) 16:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mayflower is probably broken because the user database server doesn't contain a copy of the Commons database anymore. Multichill (talk) 16:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Recent death of a contributor

User:Fg2, who I am told uploaded some 2000 photos to commons, has recently died. If any of you have had any messages you would wish to send to his family, there is an online guestbook here. Also, over at w:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Newsroom/Suggestions#Death of a Wikipedian, there is some discussion regarding trying to do some sort of memorial for him. Any comments are more than welcome. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 23:18, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

▶◀ Kwj2772 (msg) 23:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 9

Licensing question

I am uncertain whether I can upload two images in these papers: [12] [13]. The images were published in 1887 in Denmark by an author who died in 1923 [14] and reproductions were published in 1991 and 1993 in the U.S. by authors who are still alive. Can I take the images from the papers published in 1991 and 1993 and upload them as PD here? Thanks, Ucucha (talk) 16:00, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The official stance of Commons, as per out PD-ART policy, is that faithful reproductions of works in the public domain are not eligible for copyright. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'll upload the images then. Ucucha (talk) 19:12, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Frame of video

Greetings. Can you tell me how to remove the video control border on File:McNutt-video.png? Thanks. That border does not appear in Apple Preview. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:19, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Save as" fixed it. -SusanLesch (talk) 05:20, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The oldest version with the control elements must be deleted. This control bar is not free, I mean its symbols and so on! An Administrator must delete this version! Greets,Peter
✓ Done. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Media from Nasa Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Nasa's NTRS contains over 1 million records including over 40,000 pdfs; tens of thouasands of images, and tens of thousands of videos.

Most of the content has no copyright, or is a work of NASA and is thus in public domain. Have the commons ever considered importing this database?Smallman12q (talk) 14:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well you could request that at Commons:Batch uploading. We have uploaded a batch of the Greatest images of NASA before. Are the images any good? Could u give an example?--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 14:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There are tens of thousands videos, pdfs, images, sounds...etc. most without copyright. In addition, most of these have some kind of documentation making sorting them fairly easy.
As an example have a look at Fuel Cells:A survey, the pdf contains very detailed and useful illustrations and diagrams of fuel cells. (Something wikipedia lacks). Or this pdf which has Gemini fuel cell skematics. Best of all, these are essentially copyright free. The wiki commons has very few nasa diagrams/skematics. Hopefully that can change. I will copy this over to Batch uploading.Smallman12q (talk) 20:38, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've created a request at Commons:Batch uploading/Nasa Technical Reports Server (NTRS).Smallman12q (talk) 20:49, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You forgot to add the batch to this list but I did it for you, np. It seems like a valuable collection, however extracting images from PDF files need some really good scripters and we have a backlog on Commons batch upload requests. It'll take a while but it will eventually happen :) .--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 21:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oops...I'm not really involved in the commons...thankyou. I do hope this comes to pass...there are at least a million records....so the commons would benefit greatly.Smallman12q (talk) 13:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
One problem with the PDFs you linked to is that they seem to be scans of printed documents, and the image quality is often not all that high. Some of the cleanest illustrations in those PDFs could be usable as they are, but to really make them useful most of them would need to be redrawn (preferably in SVG). Of course, redrawing a diagram from a PD source can be much easier than drawing one from scratch, so the PDFs are still valuable as sources. But you shouldn't expect someone to be able to just magically pull high-quality diagrams out of them without some redrawing effort. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
While the pdfs do contain technical schematics...NTRS also have tens of thousands of free videos and pictures...so pdfs aside, there's still a good 100k+ records that are free.Smallman12q (talk) 00:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

use of photos as reference for painting

I'm new to this site and just want to make sure that I'm not violating any copyright laws. I'd like to use a photo I've found here as a reference for a watercolor painting. I'd like to attribute the photographer, but don't see any way to contact them on their user page. How do I attribute a painting under GFDL or Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike 3.0 rules when I can't figure out who the photographer is or contact them in any way? Or do I even need to? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vyigfu (talk • contribs)

You can attribute the images to them by using their Commons' username. If you're using the images in a format where linking is possible, linking to their Commons' userpage is also a good idea. You might want to read over Commons:Reusing content outside Wikimedia. Killiondude (talk) 05:14, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the response, but I'm still not clear. I will be painting a picture on watercolor paper using the image as a reference. The painting will be matted and framed to hang on a wall, so I'm not sure how to do the attribution. It won't be on the internet or in electronic form, so I can't link it to anything. I've already read the info in the link you suggested, that's why I posted the question. Are the images here only for electronic use? --vyigfu (talk) 05:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I should've read closer, my apologies. No, the images on here can be used in print (non-electronic, I guess) form as well. I'm not sure where you would attribute with a painting, but you would use their username as who you are attributing. You can ask the user how they'd like to be attributed on their user talk page, or you can try emailing them using [[Special:EmailUser/<username here>]] (putting their Commons username after the slash), but that only works if they have email enabled in their preferences. Killiondude (talk) 06:03, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Np problem, I do appreciate your responses. This site is a nightmare to get around in. Even editing messages like this is so NOT straightforward! I wonder why they've made it so difficult to use? At any rate, I've figured out how to leave the photographer a question (he/she doesn't have email enabled) and I'll wait for an answer. Thanks again for your help.--vyigfu (talk) 13:28, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"you would use their username" is not quite on the mark: if the page indicates the preferred attribution, you should follow that. For example, I prefer my attributions to use my actual name, not my Commons handle, and my image pages say so. - Jmabel ! talk 17:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Generally, this type of information would be printed on the plaque or caption accompanying your artwork. Contact the user for the specific attribution message you should use. Dcoetzee (talk) 17:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 11

Dcoetzee reinstated

Dcoetzee has been resysoped, because the dispute with the National Portrait Gallery is indefinitely suspended and has been so for some time. I reinstated the tools following the safety period and consent from the steward who desysoped Dcoetzee. Please ask if there are any questions. Kanonkas // talk // e-mail // 19:33, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good stuff! Thanks for taking care of this, K. Welcome back, D. ++Lar: t/c 20:21, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What happened to the dispute? -mattbuck (Talk) 20:43, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Same question as mattbuck. Diti the penguin 20:53, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Please see User:Dcoetzee/NPG legal threat and Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2009Jul#Legal_threat_from_National_Portrait_Gallery. Kwj2772 (msg) 13:37, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Neither of those seem to explain the current status of the NPG dispute. Adambro (talk) 13:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. I don't know current status. Maybe I have misunderstood their comments. Kwj2772 (msg) 13:52, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There has been no change in status regarding this dispute. Neither NPG, WMF, my lawyer or myself has taken any further action that I am aware of in the last 3 months. Dcoetzee (talk) 17:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 12

Log in trouble

I have been experiancing a great deal of trouble logging into wikimedia commons to upload photographs. I created the account last week and nine times out of ten the log in fails even with the correct password. Mysteriously the 'Email new password' link does not send anything to my registered email address even though I received an email when i created the account (and which I have of course verified by going to my email and clicking the vertification link)

Also, does one need to create a wikpedia account seperately from wiki commons ? Once again, my wiki common user id and password refuse to log me into wikipedia. All help highly appreciated.

Wikipedia and Commons accounts are created together nowadays.
Do you have cookies enabled? Is a spam filter intercepting the password reset emails? Stifle (talk) 14:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Finnish national library provides over 300 PD recordings in MP3. How do I convert them to ogg?

I found this site with over 300 PD recordings of music in MP3 format. What is the best way to convert them to OGG? Some of them are already on commons, but most of the are not, as far as I know. --Korall (talk) 09:21, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On Linux, the standard command-line oggenc converter works pretty well. Apparently, you can get it for Windows too. If you'd prefer a GUI program, the open-source cross-platform sound editor Audacity can read MP3 and export Ogg Vorbis. Or, if you'd prefer a web-based tool, try mediaconverter.org. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:34, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You'd also want to include the meta data on the record listing, which is the fun part. Don't waste time doing this manually, someone with a little know how can script it. ¦ Reisio (talk) 09:44, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The National Portrait Gallery’s twin brother?

FYI
Maybe the UK’s National Portrait Gallery Trustees have now noticed a potential ‘conflict of interest’ within their own organization. Their head of Rights and Reproductions is also the chair of the Museums Copyright Group, a positions one could use to act as a paid consultant to other organizations and to speak at conferences. To be in a position of being able to use the finances of one organization to further one’s profile as a consultant and not be accountable for costs should things go wrong, is surely an enviable position for a consultant to be in. However, whilst this NPG copyright issue has been going on there has been copyright - rights grab at the English National Trust. Something, I had not wanted to mention earlier whislt the NPG issue was still blowing hot.

Again, there appears to be a conflict of interest, as the person running the marketing arm of the National Trust is also the chairman for The Association for Cultural Enterprises. Another organization which it would seem, dedicated to claiming copyright to everything. [15] Again, there appears ample opportunity to raise one’s profile as a speaker and consultant should one want to. [16]

However, this year they seem to have shot themselves in the foot by informing would be visitors, that if they forget about the ban on ALL photography on NT property, then they might find themselves criminalised. Oh yes! For according to the National Trust (for England), landscapes and even photographs of plants and animals on open land, are criminal offences under a 1965 bye-law. [17] Naturally, the number of people visiting this years has fallen off.

This by-law claim is probable and almost certainly just FUD as the 1907 Act that created the NT (which is superior to any subsequent by-laws by it very nature) also demands for the preservation of existing rights for those properties brought into the NT fold. Since under United Kingdom law, one can do as one wishes unless the is a law to prohibit it, it looks like the NT does not have a leg to stand on in this respect.

WC has a growing Category:National Trust properties in the United Kingdom and only time will tell if these photographs too, get challenged. For up-loaders to WC within the UK, the NT may ague(as seems their habit) that the law is on their side and force the uploader to defend themselves. As stated in the link above, NT has already moved (at roughly the same time it appears) against a large and popular British photo library, forcing it to ‘remove’ photographs by independent photographers. Has since started to replace them with their own official NTPL photographs (was this a fate that was intended for WC depository regarding the NPG images?). But of course, this would affect more than just images in this NT cat, for how many contributors to WC realise that the White Cliffs of Dover also belong to the NT, as does much of the most picturesque landscapes in these Isles, donated by the owners for that very reason. Thus, the NT have become one of the largest guardians of the countryside in the UK and so it also means it is very difficult to take a photographs of any unspoilt view without standing on NT land. Still; after the NPG’s resent attempts and the feeling of ill-will generated by the marketing arm of the NT this year, I don’t expect to see anything too soon.--P.g.champion (talk) 14:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't looked at the details of this, but I suspect this may be a non-copyright restriction - if so, any violation is between the photographer and the state, and publication of the photos is not restricted by law. Dcoetzee (talk) 18:11, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Dcoetzee. Any violation is a matter for the photographer and the National Trust/UK government. The bye-law doesn't interfere with photographers' rights to their photographs; it renders the photographer liable to a fine if they use them.
Incidentally, the title of the section is "Hawking", so it would appear that its intention was to stop random people snapping pictures of passers-by on NT properties and trying to sell them there and then. Stifle (talk) 13:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is this picture free?

Hi. I was thinking about uploading this poster of a 1914 film but I was wondering about the fact that it could be the DVD picture of it so that might not be free. What do you think? (and if it's OK to upload it, would there be a higher resolution somewhere else?) --TwoWings * to talk or not to talk... 17:02, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's a big maybe. The original screenshot is not copyrighted, but most likely elements have been added to this screenshot to create the poster - if those elements are eligible for copyright and not de minimis, it might be copyrighted. As for larger - the best way to get a high res version of posters like this is to buy a copy of the poster and scan it (in sections and stitch them). Dcoetzee (talk) 18:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
And that assumes it is an actual screen shot: posters often aren't. At the very least, the colors would have been added. If you have the DVD, it would probably be better to capture a frame from the film.- Jmabel ! talk 07:04, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 13

HotCat bugs

HotCat.js here at Commons has some bugs:

  • it doesn't respect that interwikis should be listed after categories, and it adds categories at the page bottom always
  • when it changes (replaces) a category, it doesn't respect the original placing of replaced category and moves the category at the page bottom always.

Seeing that both this bugs are e. g. at the Czech Wikipedia solved, I suppose it is possible easily and the problem consists on some local settings here at Commons. --ŠJů (talk) 17:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a bug, it's just that our version of HotCat doesn't care. The version at the English Wikipedia contains code that tries to place categories in the right places. But that's purely wikitext cosmetic, it has no effect on the rendered page, and thus this was not thought to be important here. Given that a replacement for HotCat is in the works (it's to be integrated in the core software), I won't invest a lot of time in HotCat anymore. Lupo 12:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank You for your answer. I hope the new software will be more perfect. --ŠJů (talk) 06:47, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Author Credits

I have uploaded some Files under the GFDL and CC Licences. The "Choose a License"-box in the upload mode listed this combination under the following paragraph allow commercial use, non--commercial uses and modification as long as others credit you and share alike. The two boxes here dont say anything about crediting the photograph, so could someone include this in the summaries in the templates as the crediting of the author is one of the conditions listed in the upload mode?

This situation is also a problem for people, who want to use this image, as they can't see the author-credit clause in the summary and wont notice it.

--Liberaler Humanist (talk) 13:39, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't understand your comment completely. I changed a little. CC-license and GFDL generally has Attribution clause, so users must attribute original author. I think you have misunderstood about it. Kwj2772 (msg) 13:48, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think Liberaler Humanist does understand that CC licenses require Attribution. He says that this point is not clear in the upload form ; and that people could believe that Attribution is not mandatory and would not upload files because of this. Jean-Fred (talk) 16:51, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My problem ist, that the License-Templates dont mention the Autohor-Credit Condition clearly.

The CC-BY-SA-3.0 Template looks like this:


w:en:Creative Commons

attribution share alike

This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license.
You are free:
  • to share – to copy, distribute and transmit the work
  • to remix – to adapt the work
Under the following conditions:
  • attribution – You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
  • share alike – If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same or compatible license as the original.

I think, that In short: you are free to share and make derivative works of the file under the conditions that you appropriately attribute it, and that you distribute it only under a license identical to this one. Official license

should be changed into: In short: you are free to share and make derivative works of the file under the conditions that you appropriately credit the author and the source', and that you distribute it only under a license identical to this one. Official license

I dont think, that the current template mentions the condition of crediting the user clearly. --Liberaler Humanist (talk) 17:17, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If needed uploders can use {{Credit line}} template to specify explicit attribution requirements. --Jarekt (talk) 15:03, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Walter McClintock Glasss Lantern Slides

The Beinecke Rare Books & Manuscripts library hosts a lot of interesting material, among other things more than 1000 high quality images of glass slides ([18]). It dates them to "1874-1946", with no information on when individual slides were created.

Is that good enough for us to deduce that they are public domain and can be transferred to Commons? I want to make sure that they won't be deleted before making the effort of uploading them. -- JovanCormac 16:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is somewhat nebulous without more information, but ... they seem to be Magic Lantern slides, and so would appear to be published. Most of those slides would have been made prior to 1923, so that is what the claim would be I guess. That, and from the looks of it, publication without a copyright notice (though maybe that could have been on the back). The colorization would have been eligible for a derivative copyright, so Charlotte M. Pinkerton (judging by the example image in your link) would be one of the authors there. Carl Lindberg (talk) 05:09, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is that a yes or a no then? There are about 1500 of those slides, and they cannot be extracted automatically from the page because of varying folder names. If I do a full manual, I want to be sure that they won't be deleted by some overzealous copyright paranoiists. -- JovanCormac 05:58, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Category not displayed

I have created Category:Tone-mapped HDR images by country and added [[Category:Tone-mapped HDR images]] to it, but it won't appear as a sub-category of Category:Tone-mapped HDR images. Anyone know why and/or how to fix that? -- H005 Sexy Mouth transparent.png 21:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you click next a bit it will show up as the last page. This is because some mediawiki error that doesn't split the naming of files from categories. I added |A to make it on the first page.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 21:35, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

TOC in galleries

Hi everybody!

Does anyone know why {{TOC}} doesn't work in gallery pages such as Police motorcycles by country and Police motorcycles by brand? What's to be fixed? Thanks, --Mattes (talk) 22:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand it this only works if the Sections are only made of letters. If Australia becomes "A" the TOC works. If you remove {{TOC}} there would be a normal TOC that displays these sections.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 22:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It will work with {{Anchor}}. --Martin H. (talk) 22:48, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks!
Yes check.svg Resolved
--Mattes (talk) 08:01, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Mathematics in Category:Cities in Piedmont

Can anybody explain to me, please, why in Category:Cities in Piedmont the cities present there as galleries are 8+13=22  ? Thank you very much! --DenghiùComm (talk) 13:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No clue what you're talking about. — raeky (talk | edits) 14:10, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The category contains 21 pages. The first page of the category contains 8 of those pages, while the second (click "next 200") contains 13 more pages. In total this is 8+13=21 pages. Yet the counters on both category pages say that the category contains 22 pages in total, not 21. --Aqwis (talk) 14:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Exact! This is the (big or little) problem. --DenghiùComm (talk) 15:09, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
DenghiùComm is right there is some problem --Jarekt (talk) 15:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a bug in MediaWiki. -- JovanCormac 17:35, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP: shortcuts

I noticed that there are a few WP: shortcuts lying around. Since these are on the wrong project, would there be any objections to deleting them? –Juliancolton | Talk 00:29, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't forget to replace them every page! Kwj2772 (msg) 00:53, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, WP:OTRS might be worth keeping, seeing as it is linked on several dozen files. –Juliancolton | Talk 01:06, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Deletion will remove context for those who don't know what these funny WP: thingys are, and is bound to raise a couple of editor's hackles here and there. Instead of deleting, you could simply add the missing "w:", cf. WP:COMMONS vs. w:WP:COMMONS. Same work, better result. Or add soft redirects, as in your example. Even less work. This also eliminates the need for future maintenance edits. Paradoctor (talk) 09:13, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the links to WP:OTRS seem to be from a series of files uploaded by Sodakan in 2007, and should really point to COM:OTRS instead. I should be able to do a search-and-replace on them... —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 20:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
...and done. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:10, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see no reason to keep them, provided they aren't linked anywhere. --The Evil IP address (talk) 12:11, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How about adopting "Featured galleries" and language shells for galleries ?

I've been long thinking it would be very nice if we creates a new system of "Featured galleries". While the primary purpose of Commons is a media repository, I think gallery function is very neglected on Commons. I consider galleries are equivalent to "articles" on language-based Wiki projects. One image could have a value worth 1000 characters, but could not be enough, so gallery with proper caption would be informative and educational for those who want to know some subjects with images. For example, I created and edited the gallery, Architectural elements (incomplete though) based on the glossary of architecture at the English Wikipedia. Not everyone could be photographers, or photoshop experts, and I think editors here are much fewer than language-based Wikiprojects, so some incentive carrots could attract more wide variety of editors for Commons.

However, one problem is that the space for captions are limited, so if the caption is over three lines, it looks very crowded, and not every language could be added into the space. So could we make a function like a language shell just like Template:Information/en and Template:Information/fr? What do you think? --Caspian blue 02:34, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All discussion at Commons:Featured galleries welcome. Man vyi (talk) 05:19, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment: You said that there's not much space for captions. You can use {{LangSwitch}} for this problem. Then, only the user's language or a fallback language will appear (though the disadvantage is that every unregistered user will see the English caption, as they can't choose another language other than adding ?uselang= to the URL). For example {{LangSwitch|en=English caption|de=Deutsche Bildunterschrift}} will appear differentl depending on which language you use. --The Evil IP address (talk) 12:17, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sound, sounds and audio files

Category:Sounds is for narrow waters, as opposed to category:Sound. That doesn't stop various categories named "Sounds of..." from containing audio recordings. In addition, there is another category:audio files. I just created category:Traffic sound (for various audio recordings from road transport) and later discovered category:Rail transport audio files, which follows a different naming standard. In summary: the naming of categories for recorded sound is a big mess. On the other hand, the total number of sound recordings and their categories is still rather small. How should we name these categories? Any ideas or guidelines? --LA2 (talk) 23:33, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I recommand going to COM:CFD for this. --The Evil IP address (talk) 20:01, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 14

Copyright Release on Size

This image is available on flickr under No known copyright restrictions (PD), they only uploaded a very small image to flickr under that license, but a much larger version is available here. Does the copyright apply for only the small image they uploaded or for also the larger image from their website? The Image on their website does not clearly state the license as PD as it does on Flickr, but if they state it's PD on flickr it would be PD right, even larger scans? — raeky (talk | edits) 05:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If an image is in the public domain as {{PD-old}} etc, this applies to all sizes.
This is not the case for recent images, for which the author may relase a low resolution image under GFDL or CC or whatever but keep the copyright for the high resolution image.
Sv1xv (talk) 05:43, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The image in question is from 1911-1914, would Australian copyrights expire during that time? — raeky (talk | edits) 05:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. The copyright holder may release small sizes under a free license or in the public domain and retain all rights on the larger versions. See the Commons:Bundesarchiv cooperation, see Commons:Flickr_files#Lower_quality_images. As you said, maybe this image is in the public domain for other resons than a release. --Martin H. (talk) 05:48, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you don't explicitly state the size of the image your licensing would any image size be under that license, Commons:Flickr_files#Lower_quality_images seems to indicate they have to be specific if they're releasing only a smaller resolution size? — raeky (talk | edits) 05:52, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Being specific always helps, but in general, you can only use works actually tagged with an appropriate license. If that is only the low-resolution version, then you can't assume the right to use a larger version if it does not have a similar license tag. That is not true of works where copyright has expired -- all versions are OK then. If the country of origin of the above photograph is Australia, then {{PD-Australia}} should apply to both large and small versions. Carl Lindberg (talk) 06:03, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly, thanks Carl. Per COM:L#Australia the photograph is in the public domain. I not said this clearly because of the color of the image, are this images reworked and would a rework be in the public domain too? --Martin H. (talk) 06:14, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
These look like they're scans of prints, and the there is a darkroom chemical treatment to turn the print blue (similar to sepia), such chemical treatments would of been available back then I belive. The exact name eludes me, it's been a decade or so since I did this in my darkroom classes. Such a chemical treatment to turn them blue would of been probably ideal for these ice pictures at that time. — raeky (talk | edits) 06:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have little idea about Australian law; if someone does a full colorization on a B&W photo, that would qualify as a derivative work in the U.S. But, for just some basic processing... doubt it, for the U.S. (and maybe PD-Art would apply). Australia though... not entirely sure. Straight scans wouldn't be enough, probably even there, but they do have some different ideas about "originality" (inherited from the UK). Carl Lindberg (talk) 06:25, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Archival record is here, the collection says nothing about reworks. So yes, PD-Australia would be fine. --Martin H. (talk) 06:48, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate images

Now duplicate images is deleted, But now admin can move images, duplicate images should merge, Not delete.--shizhao (talk) 12:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean 'merge'? There's nothing to merge for image files. GraYoshi2x►talk 23:20, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe they meant redirects should be left in place? Not sure there is much to merge (which usually means edit history) either. Unless images have different old revisions... maybe that is what is meant. Carl Lindberg (talk) 02:43, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Topics

The media file File:Kennedy'sfounders.jpg is in Category:Topics, for no obvious reason. Could someone look into this? This, that and the other (talk) 09:29, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted as a duplicate of File:KennedyFdrs.jpg, which is in Category:Business (better, but could be refined). –Tryphon 10:04, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The reason was malformed categorization, it had the text {{Category:Business}}, that includes the (textual) content of Category:Business and thats category:topics. --Martin H. (talk) 17:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Protecting files only from uploading, not from editing the description page

As you're probably aware of, we have a lot of files that are indefinitely full-protected. This is done as these are highly used, and it certainly would not be good if someone uploaded a porno image over our logo that's used on any Commons page. But, is there any reason that people can't edit the image description page. That they can't categorize the image, that they can't add imagenotes or that the bots can't localize the templates. I fail to see any reason for this. Thus, I'd like to propose an alternative protection for those indefinitely fullprotected high-use images, and only for those. {{Enwiki main page}} images and other temporary protections will not be affected by this. As I was recently told by Ilmari Karonen, a MediaWiki developer and also one of the admins here, it's possible to protect files from re-uploading, but still allowing people to edit the image description page. Non-admins can test this with this test image. As this is much more convinient to our users, I'd like to propose the following:

  1. Delete any full-protected images that are already protected by the Titleblacklist. It's just a waste of capacity to still keep those, as they can't be created anyways.
  2. Delete {{Prohibited name}}s and protect them from creation, as it's already done for many files. Tweak the message to reflect that they should use a better filename.
  3. Protect all full-protected files via the Titleblacklist, write a warning for the image description page and create a Titleblacklist warning that says them why they can't upload this file.
  4. Add something about the Titleblacklist-protection to MediaWiki:Protect-text so that admins are aware of this.

I admit that this will be some work, but I think that we sholdn't always think of how much work something is, but rather concentrate that the users don't have so many problems. It's the community that makes a wiki good, not how easy it is for the admins. So, what is your opinion on this matter? I would be happy if you could tell me some suggestions or give me a general feedback. If there are still any questions left, feel free to ask. Thank you for your help. --The Evil IP address (talk) 15:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Symbol support vote.svg Support As The Evil IP address noted, I was the one who suggested the possibility of using the title blacklist for this purpose. I think this could be a good idea: while some files do need to be protected for various reasons, protecting the image description page is much less frequently necessary. Of course, the suggested implementation is just a temporary workaround, pending the addition of proper upload-only protection to MediaWiki (bug 6579). That might happen tomorrow, or it might take months or years. But the title blacklist trick is something that already works, and using it now won't in any way prevent us from switching to proper upload-only protection if and when someone gets around to implementing the remaining bits needed for it. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 18:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment what does an admin have to do to protect image upload instead of both? Would it be a one button click or should an admin go through a long process to do this? Another question is that this bug has been filed 3 years ago. Isn't there any feedback by the developers regarding this feature? I would just wait for the new feature instead of doing all this work to each protection...--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 20:41, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • It requires adding one line to MediaWiki:Titleblacklist. Not quite just one click, but no more work than, say, posting a comment here on the pump. (And, come to think of it, it would be possible to do it in one click using JavaScript. In fact, it would be quite a simple script to write.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 21:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Symbol support vote.svg Support this sounds like a cleaner solution then the one currently used --Jarekt (talk) 15:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sounds like a good idea to me. –Juliancolton | Talk 18:52, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Symbol neutral vote.svg Neutral I think we should get some input on this from a person who is involved with Wikimedia servers. It is my understanding that an image name is matched against the entire titleblacklist every time any image is uploaded. So if we heavily fill up the titleblacklist, I assume we will significantly increase server load. I'm not sure that's the way to go. Maybe we should rather petition for a new "upload" permission to be protectable, just like "edit", "move" and "create"? Regards, -- ChrisiPK (Talk|Contribs) 16:24, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, you absolutely have a point here. If there are problems for the server, of course this shouldn't be used. --The Evil IP address (talk) 19:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I very much doubt that matching a few hundreds, or even thousands, of anchored regexps against the filename on every upload is going to cause noticeable server load, especially not compared to all the other work that uploading a file already involves. Heck, just parsing this page takes more regexp matches than that. And uploads are, even here on Commons, comparatively rare — it's not something that would have to be done on every edit or page view. Of course, if it does turn out to somehow cause unreasonable server load, someone (probably Domas) will tell us to stop doing it. But until then, I wouldn't worry about server load. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • As 1 and 2 are already in place, one could just do steps 3 and 4. -- User:Docu at 18:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unidentified people and Patroller right

I decided to try out my newly granted Patroller permission, and found only one page needing to be patrolled. I see why others skipped past it.

What is the guideline for handling unidentified people? The most common method is to place the photos directly in Category:Unidentified people or a subcat (Category:Unidentified people of the German Democratic Republic, Category:Unidentified politicians of Germany, etc.). So why is there also a page for Commons:Unidentified people of Germany if there are already two other subcategories so similar?

The page that led me to this was Unidentified Russian people, which sounds very similar to Commons:Unidentified people of Germany, except for the namespace (main space instead of project space). So, which is the correct namespace? Or are either of these pages necessary?

Wouldn't categories work equally well? The two current German subcategories (very specific) could be moved under a new category of Category:Unidentified people of Germany (rather general). Not that either of the two current subcategories are very populated. But it is helpful to have an idea of the person's occupation (politician) or historical location (GDR). Maybe that's why the page was set up, so that more pertinent details could be added than a simple category can cover.

Back to the patroller right, should I mark a page that otherwise looks fine, such as this one, as patrolled, even if there is a whole lot of other confusion surrounding it? Is the patroller right just stating that the content of the page looks fine, even if the metadata surrounding the page is wonky? Thanks for the clarification. —Willscrlt “Talk” • “w:en” • “m” ) 08:27, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No responses? Hmmm. Either there's no obvious answer, or this message got missed. :-) —Willscrlt “Talk” • “w:en” • “m” ) 20:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Go for the first (no obvious answers, at least not for me). I have some (sparse) ideas, though:
  • questions and requests for more info on the subject(s) of a photo ideally belong to the photo's talk page, to avoid information dispersion;
  • but it seems to me that talk pages, for whatever reason, are less popular on Commons than in other Wikimedia projects;
  • the galleries official guideline requires using the <gallery> tag. Details and comments would have to be "squeezed" in the thumbnail caption, which is less than ideal for adding comments; also, galleries are for displaying and organizing content, not for discussing on content;
  • perhaps there should be a template (to be put in the file description) displaying a message to notify the casual viewer that there's a request for more info about the image content, with a direct link to the talk page of the image. The template should take care also of adding the file to a special category (example: Category:Requests for more info). Answers could then be copied from the talk pages directly into the file description, if appropriate. Think of this as a general mechanism for requesting more info on a file, not just for people.
As for your original question: in absence of a specific guideline on the subject, I wouldn't mark that as patrolled. -- IANEZZ  (talk) 22:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply. I agree about squeezing comments into a gallery thumbnail being inadequate. Talk pages are the most obvious choice, but I, too, have noticed they are mostly unused here. A template sounds good. It should point the viewer to the talk page specifically on Commons (since it will likely be replicated to all projects via the image description). I like the auto-categorization, too. Does it really need to be a new category? Or would Category:Unidentified people be sufficient? —Willscrlt “Talk” • “w:en” • “m” ) 23:09, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
At first I was for using Category:Unidentified people, but then, looking at it, using a template to ask for more info could also be used for other kind of requests (not just for identifying people: for example, someone could ask more info on a mountain/building/whatever seen in the background), so the first thing that came to my mind was to use a generic category for requests for more info. But we could also have different templates for different kinds of requests, or a parametrized template specifying the nature of the request, so existing categories could be reused where appropriate. -- IANEZZ  (talk) 08:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. I like the parametrized template idea. It's flexible and, if designed well, could have solve quite a variety of issues. Basically anytime that there's a "Who/what is that?" question about an image, the template could be utilized. The most basic questions that would likely need answering would be, Who, What, Where, and When (Why is not really something I see needing answered in this case). The Who would answer the unknown people. The What could be for an unusual building, as well as a Where. And When could be used for a known person (like a celebrity or politician) but taken at an unknown time in the person's life. Do we further subdivide those basic questions down into more refined ones, or keep it deliberately broad, and thus, arguably, simpler? —Willscrlt “Talk” • “w:en” • “m” ) 11:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'd stay basic, ({{Who}}, {{What}}, {{Where}} and {{When}} also make nice template names that are not currently used): the full details of the request could be put in the talk page by the requestor. Perhaps an optional parameter could point to the specific section in the talk page about the request. Something along the lines of
{{who|category=Unidentified people of the German Democratic Republic|section=Man on left}}
or
{{what|section=Mountain in the background}}
, with both the "category" and "section" parameters being optional (category defaulting to Category:Unidentified people for {{Who}}, and section defaulting to the whole talk page). If it'll ever be popular, buttons could be put on the file page to make easy for the casual viewer to ask such questions (that is: adding the proper template to the description page and a new section in the talk page). -- IANEZZ  (talk) 12:13, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On a second thought, {{Who?}}, {{What?}}, {{Where?}} and {{When?}} (with the question mark) could be more appropriate template names. -- IANEZZ  (talk) 12:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Category name

I have created the Category:Esperanto mass in Liberec, 19 July 2009 and would like to upload several pictures there. Nevertheless, in my opinion the category name isn't nice, although I don't know how to improve it according to the routine of the Wikimedia Commons. Could please somebody help? --Petrus Adamus (talk) 22:30, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 17

Ghost Categories

I have found two pictures that have as categories Hudson River School. The question is why do they have that category? I go to edit the page to remove the category (there is a sub-category of Hudson River School they should be in), but I can't find the Category:Hudson River School tag/code. What am I missing?

Here they are:

Asher Brown Durand 001.jpg Asher Brown Durand - Woodland Landscape.jpg

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rsberzerker (talk • contribs)

It's the transclusion in the description of Creator:Asher Brown Durand that does that. -- User:Docu at 02:10, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed it. Someone seriously screwed up the creator template. Fixed now. Multichill (talk) 12:59, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Moving Image

Could someone move the Image File:Panorma Donau Linz.jpg to File:Panorama Donau Linz.jpg. The current title includes a misspelling. --Liberaler Humanist (talk) 16:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. --Leafnode 17:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

October 18

AntWeb batch uploading

Developer of AntWeb, User:Davethau hope to upload AntWeb pictures (about ~30,000) under cc-by-sa-3.0 and GFDL using bot. First, I blocked the bot because op-name was unspecifid at that time, but he requested for unblock by email. Also he told me he would request at COM:BRFA. I will unblock because he specified op-name, but I will request him to delay uploads until community consensus is constructed. Thank you. Kwj2772 (msg) 05:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If that is true this is the best piece of news I've ever heard on Commons. AntWeb has a large amount of high-quality images (not the low quality dreck that the Bundesarchiv "donation" had us categorize for free). If we could integrate that library into Commons and categorize it, Commons would become one of the web's major resources of ant photographs. -- JovanCormac 10:38, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Bundesarchiv may not have been the highest technical quality photos, but most of them were of things where we otherwise had no free image at all, and no way to obtain one. You are simply not going to find any significant number of photos of (for example) routine events in mid-century Germany that are of the same technical quality as on a scientifically-oriented site from the age of digital photography. Even though Leica was making very nice lenses. Those images are not "dreck", and from the point of view of documenting history I'm damn glad we have them. - Jmabel ! talk 17:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded. Jovan, I appreciate your appreciation of high resolution images, but I don't think that should diminish our appreciation of what must have been a very difficult decision for a federal archive to free up more than 100,000 photographs which wouldn't otherwise be available in any form in Wikimedia projects. I don't think using language like the above will help us to convince more organizations to partner with Wikimedia. I say this in the greatest respect for your own contributions to Commons. :-)--Eloquence (talk) 23:07, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, of course. I exaggerated a little there. My comment was designed to highlight how great the AntWeb donation is in contrast to the Bundesarchiv donation, of which I still think that we got the short end of the stick and which should not become a precedence case IMO (museums or archives "donating" piles of low-quality images while keeping higher-resolution ones and using our categorizing work to maintain their own high quality versions). -- JovanCormac 15:39, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As long as the donations are still useful for us, I think they are great -- the more material available the better. Obviously we much prefer higher resolution, but copyright holders can choose what they want to license -- medium resolution is far better than nothing, so if there is a way which benefits both parties then great. But yes, this collection looks to be fantastic. Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's true. An example uploaded image is here: File:Boloponera_vicans_casent0401737_profile_1.jpg. Everything's under the cc-by-sa-3.0 license. I look forward to getting the bot approved. If anyone has comments about the metadata attached to the image, please let me know. Thanks! --Davethau (talk) 18:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Dave. Thanks so much for your work with uploading these neat pictures. I do have to tell you that your bot will not be able to upload "one [image] a second" (like what you said on User:File Upload Bot (AntWeb)). Per COM:BOTS#Bot speed, one image every 10 seconds will probably be as fast as you should upload. You might also want to see Wikipedia's bot page (it's a little more descriptive about the topic of speed and stuff) on w:WP:Bot policy#Bot requirements. You also might want to use the {{bot}} template for your bot's userpage and maybe write something on your own userpage stating that you are the operator. Let me/us know if you have any further questions. :-) Killiondude (talk) 20:11, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) After creating an upload tool for AntWeb, I'm a bit sad to see that work will not be very useful, but I highly endorse Davethau's bulk uploads of this material. They're coming with in with full taxonomic data, geographic data if available, and the reference number to look up more info if you was so inclined. Having these references would definitely be a benefit to the project and motivate more people to create more ant pages on the various projects since we'll have reference images for the species. With ~30,000 of these images coming in, there might need to be a more elaborate system of categories to organize it all, but definitely we need to get these images. — raeky (talk | edits) 20:11, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Raeky, your tool apparently categorizes the images under every category from Formicidae down to the species'. That's a bit redundant, and makes it hard to navigate the Formicidae category. I'll remove the extra categories and leave only the species one, and I'd ask you to please change that in your upload tool.
What we need is to create the category tree, but that's very easy to do since Dave is adding the taxonavigation template to every image, which shows the correct hierarchy of categories for each one. --Waldir talk 08:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My tool is redundant and not really going to have any use if he continues with his plan to upload the whole archive here, if he does then I'll just remove my tool from the web, if he doesn't then I can justify actually developing it further, lol. I only started to make it a few days before he e-mailed me about the bulk upload. The current form adds the image to the family's catagory, then genus catagory then "genus species", thats all I could easyly discover myself. Apparently his backend database has the full taxo tree, which if thats the case I would of built the taxobox thing that hes doing instead. Anyway, I'll put a notice that noone should really use my upload tool at the moment due to this pending debate. — raeky (talk | edits) 09:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any way you could automatically generate the taxonavigation templates to add to the AntWeb images you've uploaded? That'd be very useful for the creation of the category tree. --Waldir talk 09:34, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I donno, the data hes using isn't publicly viewable that I've seen on the site, I'd need to find another site that I could easily search and parse via a script to do it. But if he continues with his uploads all my images will become duplicates and can be deleted solving the problem of them not having the taxonavigation template. :P — raeky (talk | edits) 09:36, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I thought of that too. Possibly that'd be the best solution.. --Waldir talk 10:51, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sad that all that effort to make the upload tool is all for not, but at least it made coding the mushroom observer tool much faster, and is good experience for future tools. :P I'm more than happy to see that possibly my interest in AntWeb contributed to bulk upload of the data here, so guess it wasn't a waste of time. — raeky (talk | edits) 11:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It definitely wasn't! I thought it was an excellent idea, and I' sure it helped you learn a few things :) but since they're uploading the images themselves, it's best to have the whole set standardized. I'm keeping the promise to give you feedback on the other tool, I hope to do it tonight. Cheers, Waldir talk 14:03, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Looks nice. It looks similar to the Starr upload. I left my comments at Commons:Bots/Requests/File Upload Bot (AntWeb). --Multichill 21:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How do I know when community consensus has been reached? Davethau (talk) 19:30, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You can run when Commons:Bots/Requests/File Upload Bot (AntWeb) is marked as approved. Multichill (talk) 19:41, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, the bot has been approved! --Waldir talk 18:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hooray! Thanks User:Waldir! The upload has commenced! Very exciting!! Davethau (talk) 06:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Which group is tasked with wiki software design?

Being active on several wikis, and using the beta version in all, several questions came to mind regarding the divergent implementations of the web pages in various wikis.

  1. Which group is tasked with the beta software design used in the English versions of the Wikipedia family, meaning which is the right forum to discuss design features and suggestions?
  2. Which group is tasked with reducing unnecessary variations and duplications across the English wiki family. For example: I found this handy template on MediaWiki, softredirect|en:User:Ineuw, which points to my original user page on English Wikipedia. This template doesn't seem to exist here, or at least, not by the same name. Ineuw (talk) 16:34, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that there's any group working with the beta skin. There aren't many groups here at Commons. I know that it's possible to use the skin here though several essential scripts like Twinkle and Navigation popups don't work with this skin. The best place for feature suggestions is the village pump here, where most discussion and feature requests takes place. To answer the second question, please note that Commons is not part of the English wiki family. Commons is a multi-lingual project by the Wikimedia Foundation that hosts images that can be used by all Wikimedia projects and external projects if they desire. We generally try to avoid copying templates from en.wikipedia (or any other wiki), because this has some problems: First, stupid upload bots. The upload bots who move images from other wikis to Commons copy all transcluded templates (even if they're used within a template) to Commons if they exist under this name here. So, for example, if {{File other}} would exist, then the bots would add the template to the image page on Commons. If they don't exist they just leave a note like <!-- Template:File other was used on the original description page, but doesn't appear to exist on commons -->. Secondly, we don't need every template that en.wikipedia uses. Stub templates are useless as Commons doesn't even have articles. Thirdly, we also don't want anyone to just copy the templates from en.wikipedia without thinking, which is why we try to make the templates not working when people simply copy and paste stuff from en.wikipedia. I've now always said when copying from en.wikipedia, of course this applies to copying templates from other wikis as well (we once had someone who copied the German NoCommons template over here, for example). I think for what you've asked, {{Softredirect}} might be what you're looking for. --The Evil IP address (talk) 18:32, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You have no idea how grateful I am for the clarification. The [[softredeirect]] template was just a philosophical observation in general about the uniformity of features which are common to all English language wikis. I just wish to reduce the learning curve with the increased contributions on the various en. wikis.
Reading your reply two days late is a prime example of how I would like to simplify my accessing the different posts I make on different wikis. At the moment, I rely on memory and to be honest, I didn't look yesterday. Ineuw (talk) 15:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[